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 Post subject: Black Island, Harbor Main?
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:04 am 
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Hi,
I hope someone can clear up a geographical question I have. McAlpine's 1870 directory has a list of 17 men residing in Black Island, Harbor Main. The next community on the page is Black Island, Twillingate/Fogo, which has 4 men listed. Given that 2 of the men listed as living in Black Island, Harbor Main are my ancestors, and I am quite sure they were in Twillingate district at the time, am I correct in assuming this to be an error, as there was no Black Island in Harbor Main? If I am not mistaken, there were 2 Black Islands in NDB, but I can't find one in Harbor Main.
Any thoughts welcome.
Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Black Island, Harbor Main?
 Post Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:45 pm 
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If you look in the Other Lists (on the top tab bar) and search under Newfoundland and Labrador Community names you can look at an alphabetical listing of former community names. Black Island was a prior name for Twillingate and the other Black Island was in Labrador. I am thinking you'd be safe to assume Black Island was in Twillingate.


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 Post subject: Re: Black Island, Harbor Main?
 Post Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:04 pm 
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reynolda wrote:
If you look in the Other Lists (on the top tab bar) and search under Newfoundland and Labrador Community names you can look at an alphabetical listing of former community names. Black Island was a prior name for Twillingate and the other Black Island was in Labrador. I am thinking you'd be safe to assume Black Island was in Twillingate.


Thanks, Reynolda,
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was a typo. Thanks for reminding me about the name change list, too. I had completely forgotten about that.
;)
Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Black Island, Harbor Main?
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:59 pm 
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There are two Black Islands in the Twillingate District. The larger Black Island, actually comprised of two islands, is located near the Exploit's Islands and the Samson's Islands, at the entrance to Notre Dame Bay. Early settlers there included the surnames: Potter, Dorey, Hill, Baker, Barnes, Osmond, Pelley, Hamilton, Hennifant, etc.

There is a smaller Black Island located just off the south end of Twillingate Island, between the Twillingate South Island and Hillgrade-Fairbanks on New World Island. As you drive across the causeway linking New World Island to the Twillingate South Island, you can see this Black Island just off to the left. The surnames of Sansome, Rice, and others resided on this Island during earlier times.


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 Post subject: Re: Black Island, Harbor Main?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:14 am 
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Milt wrote:
There are two Black Islands in the Twillingate District. The larger Black Island, actually comprised of two islands, is located near the Exploit's Islands and the Samson's Islands, at the entrance to Notre Dame Bay. Early settlers there included the surnames: Potter, Dorey, Hill, Baker, Barnes, Osmond, Pelley, Hamilton, Hennifant, etc.

There is a smaller Black Island located just off the south end of Twillingate Island, between the Twillingate South Island and Hillgrade-Fairbanks on New World Island. As you drive across the causeway linking New World Island to the Twillingate South Island, you can see this Black Island just off to the left. The surnames of Sansome, Rice, and others resided on this Island during earlier times.


Milt,
Great info, thank you. I am descended from the Baker and Dorey families who were on the larger(?) Black Island. My 3x great-grandparents were Job Baker (son of John & Sarah of Carbonear), and Rachel Dorey (d. of John & Elizabeth Moulton of Black Island).

In trying to ascertain the lineage of Job, I have been challenged in a number of ways.

Job's baptism entry names his parents as John & Sarah (Nov 16 1835, Carbonear; per Harbor Grace Anglican). Although I am very grateful to have the name's of Job's parents, It has been my mission for a dozen years to go further back. I can find no record of John & Sarah's marriage in any of the available databases, so I continue to look for cracks in the wall! Here's where I stand thus far:

It is quite evident that Samuel Baker & Jane (Pelley) Baker are closely related to Job. They were married 26 Dec 1815 (per Carbonear Methodist). He of Wareham, Dorset, England and she of Carbonear. Their first son was John, b. 22 Nov 1816 Carbonear bap Apr 23 1817 (per Carbonear Methodist). For a while I believed this John to be Job's father, thus making Samuel Job's grandfather. However, I then became aware of the recorded birth of another John, born to Samuel and Jane, in 1836 (per Carbonear Anglican). It does not make sense for Samuel and Jane to have 2 sons, both named John, so I assume the one born in 1816 died and the 2nd, born 1836 was named in his memory. Just speculation.

Per HG Anglican, & Carbonear Anglican & Methodist, the children of Samuel Baker and Jane Pelley recorded:

John b 22 Nov 1816 Carbonear bap Apr 23 1817
Mary b 21 Oct 1819 Carbonear, bap Dec 19 1819
Samuel & James, twin sons of Samuel & Jane Baker of Carbonear b Jan 28 1825, bap Jan 15 1826.
Joseph of Samuel & Jane Baker b Sep 7 1828, bap Sep 28 1828
Ann of Samuel & "Elizabeth" Baker, b Aug 1 1830, bap Feb 27 or 29 1832 (writing hard to read for baptismal date)
John of Samuel & Jane Baker b Oct 13 1836, bap June 4 1837.

Indicative of a close family relationship between Samuel/Jane and Job is their seemingly concurrent resettlement in the 1840's-1850's from Carbonear to Notre Dame Bay, specifically, Black Island, Exploits. Incidentally, Jane (Pelley) Baker (Samuel's wife) died on Black Island in 1867.

Preceding Job's marriage to Rachel Dorey at Black Island in 1859, at which Samuel Baker, and Jas. Snow were witnesses, there were the following marriages. Note the witnesses.:

Dec 6 1838 William Potter, bach, Carbonear & Mary Baker, spin, Carbonear.
HG ANG. WIT: Samuel Baker, John Baker (both of Carbonear)
This couple resettled in, and died on, Little Black Island, NDB.

Aug 19 1844 George Noseworthy & Elizabeth Baker. At Black Island Tickle, CE.
Residence not given. WIT: Samuel Baker, Jane Baker.

Oct 9 1856 Richard Mew & Ann Maria Baker, both of Black Island. At
Moretons Hr, CE. WIT: Sam Baker Sr, Job Baker

The obvious commonality in all 4 of these marriages is the fact that Samuel Baker is named as a witness, along with the fact that all except one took place on or around Black Island.
To me, the most revealing might be the marriage of William Potter and Mary Baker (of Samuel & Jane), in 1838, where the witnesses were Samuel Baker and John Baker (both of Carbonear). I feel it is likely that this John may be Job's father. Could he be Samuel's brother?

It is also interesting that Job and Samuel Baker Sr were witnesses at Ann Maria Baker's marriage to Richard Mew at Moreton's Harbor, NDB in 1856. This Ann may be Samuel and Jane's daughter born in 1830. Again, not sure of Job's relationship to the bride or Samuel.

There is a lead I have been taking a very close look at as of late. This couple has really piqued my interest:
John & Mary Anne Baker, Black Island, CE/vol 86
Children:
Emma b Mar 6 1843 Black Island, bap Mar 28 1843 (Vol 86)
John Charles bap Nov 17 1845 Black Island (vol 86)

Could this be Job's father? I am considering the possibility that Sarah (Job's named mother at his baptism in Carbonear) may have died, and John (Job's father) remarried and resettled in Black Island.
The big flaw of this theory is:
On the marriage record of Job Baker and Rachel Dorey (1859), Job's place of residence is given as Carbonear. If the John mentioned above was, in fact, Job's father, and was living in Black Island in 1843, when his daughter Emma was born (as the record states), then it is likely Job would have been living with him in Black Island, as he would have been only 7 or 8 years old in 1843. Maybe the marriage record of Job and Rachel listed his place of birth, rather than his residence at the time?
I may be ordering the Baker name file of the Keith Matthews Collection for possible breakthroughs. In the meantime, any thoughts or insights most gratefully welcome.
Thanks!
Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Black Island, Harbor Main?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:34 am 
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Yes, the Bakers from the village of Stoborough, near Wareham, Dorset.....and later at Carbonear Southside.

And, the Doreys from West Lulworth, Dorset, and later at Moreton's Harbour.

These families were back and forth between Carbonear and Black Island, and Moreton's Harbour and Black Island, during the early settlement years - 1840s.

I just took a cursory look, and I have birth-baptism records for nine children of Samuel Baker and Jane Pelley.

The John Bakers are a bit of an entanglement. It would not surprise me to learn there were deaths and fosterings involved here.

It has been a while since I studied the relationships of these family members.


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 Post subject: Re: Black Island, Harbor Main?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:09 pm 
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Hi Milt,
Thanks so much for that! If you wouldn't mind, I'll take anything you have on this family. Yes, the Johns are confusing! You had tipped me off to Stoborough in another post (many thanks!!). I think I found Samuel's baptism record from there in 1779 to Daniel & Ann. On the preceding page of the record book is a John Baker, 1779 of John & Mary. Maybe John was a cousin of Samuel?

Very interesting what you mention about deaths and fosterings. I notice that Job's first son was named James. His second son, Samuel. It almost feels as though Samuel raised Job, especially given the wedding of Ann Maria Baker & Richard Mew, 1856, where Samuel and Job were witnesses.

As I mentioned previously, Samuel and John were witnesses at Carbonear for Mary's marriage to Will. Potter (1838) when Job was 3 or 4 yrs old. The next question would likely be, is John to be found later at Black Island?

Would you mind if I gave you my email via PM? I'd love to get the names of the rest of Samuel and Jane's children and anything else you have.

Can't thank you enough, Milt!

Steve

Add: Something just occurred to me, Milt. Is it possible that the John b. 1836 was not the son of Samuel and Jane? This would make it possible that their first son, John born 1816 could be the father of Job. Just a thought.


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 Post subject: Re: Black Island, Harbor Main?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:45 pm 
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Steve, I believe I have copies of the actual handwritten church register entries for the marriage of Samuel Baker and Jane Pelley, and for the births-baptisms of most or all of their children. I'll take a look in my files later today.

Yes, I am inclined to think the John Baker referenced in the 1830s and 1840s material, is the John Baker, born in 1816, son of Samuel Baker and Jane Pelley. I don't think I have discovered a death record for him.

But, where does that leave us with respect to the John Baker, born 1836. Is there an issue with this entry, wrong name, wrong parent's names?


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 Post subject: Re: Black Island, Harbor Main?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:56 pm 
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Handwritten marriage Record:

"Sammuel Baker of the Parish of Warem Dorset and Jane Pelley of Carbonear were married in this place by consent of Parents and Friends this Twenty Six Day of Dec'er in the Year One Thousand Eight Hundred and Fifteen by me, Sampson Busby W. My.
This Marriage was Solemnized between us: Sammuell Baker (x mark), Jane Pelley (x mark).
In the Presence of: William Penney, Charles R......."


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 Post subject: Re: Black Island, Harbor Main?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:02 pm 
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Children of Samuel Baker and Jane Pelley:
John, 1816.
Mary, 1819.
Elizabeth, 1822.
Samuel, 1825 (twin).
James, 1825 (twin).
Joseph 1828.
Ann, 1830 (parent's names given in record as Samuel and Elizabeth, a mistake).
Elizabeth Jane, 1832.
John, 1836.


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 Post subject: Re: Black Island, Harbor Main?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:08 pm 
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Handwritten Record:

The Year 1817.

"John Baker son of Samuel & Jane Baker of Carbonear was Born Nov. 22, 1816 and Christened April 23 and Registered the 26th April by me, John Walsh, W. Missionary."


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 Post subject: Re: Black Island, Harbor Main?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:10 pm 
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Handwritten Record:

"John son of Sam'l & Jane Baker born 15th Oct 1836 bapt 4th. June 1837 by me, (Clergy signature follows, looks like J. Burt)."


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 Post subject: Re: Black Island, Harbor Main?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:13 pm 
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Wow, thank you Milt for this. This is very interesting, in that the 2 children I didn't have baptism info for were both named Elizabeth! The first (b 1822) must be this one who married Geo. Noseworthy:
Aug 19 1844 George Noseworthy & Elizabeth Baker. At Black Island Tickle, CE.
Residence not given. W: Samuel Baker, Jane Baker.

Then they had Elizabeth Jane in 1832! This 2nd Elizabeth couldn't have married at age 10, so is it possible that Sam and Jane double-named some of their kids? Or, as you point out, perhaps there was a mistake in entry of 2nd John in 1836. But these 2 Elizabeths, along with 2 Johns really have me wondering! Maybe they simply named the 1st and last boy John?

Milt I can't tell you how fun it is communicating with you. Please let me know what you think. Also, if you ever get a chance to scan those church records, would you mind emailing me copies?

Thanks so much!
Steve

Add: I also wonder if Jane Pelley's name was really Elizabeth Jane, which would account for the Elizabeth Jane b. 1832 and "Elizabeth" being given as Ann's mother on bap record.


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 Post subject: Re: Black Island, Harbor Main?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:23 pm 
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Steve, I have considered this as a possibility - but only a possibility.

John Baker, born in 1816, married Sarah.

They had a son Job Baker, baptised on November 16, 1835, so he was obviously born before this date.

They had a son John Baker, born on October 15, 1836. The mother Sarah died, possibly in childbirth. John Baker, born 1836, was left without a mother, so the grandparents, Samuel and Jane Baker, took him, baptised him, and fostered him at least until his father John remarried to Mary Ann and subsequently resided at Black Island.

Job Baker may have been fostered by his grandparents also.

I stress, only a possibility !


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 Post subject: Re: Black Island, Harbor Main?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:52 pm 
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Aha! But then how would John Charles (bap Nov 17 1845 Black Island to John & Mary Ann) fit in? We would have yet another family with 2 Johns! Although I agree, it definitely appears some sort of tragedy struck about this time.
Do you believe as I tend to, that the Jane Baker who died on Little Black Island, 1867, age 73 was Samuel's wife? If this was she, her year of birth would be c1794. I guess 42 would not have been too old to have John in 1836.

Another thought I had was, what if Sarah and Mary Ann are the same person. Is there a record of marriage for John & Mary Ann? Maybe Sarah was a mistake on Job's bap record.

Milt, are we possibly cousins?


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 Post subject: Re: Black Island, Harbor Main?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:09 pm 
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Yes, there is something unusual about the John Baker, born in 1836.

Yes, I am showing Jane Baker, who died in 1867, as the wife of Samuel Baker.

I am not a direct descendant of the Baker family, although some of the Bakers show up in my family tree. My primary research focus has been on the earliest inhabitants of Notre Dame Bay, mostly those pre 1850.

What if John Baker, born in 1836, died while a child, before John Charles Baker of 1845 was born !

Sarah and Mary Ann must have been two different women.

Some speculation here, I know.


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 Post subject: Re: Black Island, Harbor Main?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:36 pm 
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Yes,
John of 1836 dies, then we have father John remarrying to Mary Ann in NDB. Perhaps Job stayed behind with Samuel, because when he marries Rachel Dorey in 1859, his residence is given as Carbonear.
It would make sense, I suppose, for John to want to leave Job in an established home while he went to get set up in a new location.

Add: John of 1816 would have been a young father-not quite 19 at the time of Job's Bap.


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 Post subject: Re: Black Island, Harbor Main?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:59 pm 
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I suppose Job could have been fostered by his grandfather Samuel, or by someone else.

And, these Bakers were likely back and forth between Carbonear and Black Island, especially during the early years.


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 Post subject: Re: Black Island, Harbor Main?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:07 pm 
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Milt,
I think it is a pretty good bet that John (1816) is both Sam's son, and Job's father. What do you think?


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 Post subject: Re: Black Island, Harbor Main?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:11 pm 
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I think so.


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 Post subject: Re: Black Island, Harbor Main?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:10 am 
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Milt,
Why is it believed that Stoborough is the likely village of origin of these Bakers?


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 Post subject: Re: Black Island, Harbor Main?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:03 pm 
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Milt,
I've been giving the scenario you proposed a lot of thought. I think it makes sense. Boy would it be nice to have Sarah's death record!

If we assume that Job's place of residence is Carbonear, as stated in marriage entry, is correct, then (aside from journeys to Black Island) he basically would have grown up with his grandparents throughout the 1840's and '50's. As I mentioned, Job's 3rd son was named Samuel. Two of his daughters (Elizabeth and Ada) have "Jane" as a middle name.

The naming patterns of John and Job are somewhat strange. You would think that Job's name should have been Samuel or John. I know Job Bros. was a large fishing maybe shipping?) interest at that time. Perhaps that explains his name?

And then we have Job naming his first son "James" (perhaps after his uncle, b 1825), and second son "Reuben." No John at all. Of course he may have felt an estrangement, who knows?

Anyway, thanks again. Just thought I'd get those thoughts out there.


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