Newfoundland's Grand Banks Message Board

Hi,

I must admit that my geography of Newfoundland is not too good, so bear with me, please.

I know that my ancestors worked on vessels that were either in the fishing industry or in the timber industry transporting timber between Newfoundland and Poole, in Dorset, UK.

The question I need answering (if there is an easy answer) is - which port in Newfoundland would the vessels engaged in the timber trade to Poole have sailed from?

The reason for this is that my g-g-grandfather was born in Newfoundland, but was still registered as a "British Subject", so I presume he was born on a British vessel visiting Newfoundland at the time. I am taking around 1835.

Anyone any ideas?

Hi I have a copy of the family tree of the Manual family from the Exploits / St John's area. If your interested in seeing it contact me at duntara44@gmail.com.
Cheers Don

Hello,
I would be most interested in seeing the family tree. Since my post, I have discovered that my gggGrandfather was Samuel Manuel, who died in Newfoundland in 1865, aged 83, and I understand he was from Exploits or thereabouts.

Ron

Ron, further to my recent email transactions with Peter....an associate of yours, I believe.

I have additional information on Samuel and Ann Manuel, and William and Providence Manuel, and their descendants.

Also, I have a copy of an old photograph of Susannah Manuel (1832-1910) and her husband, Samuel Anstey (1832-1923), of Twillingate.

I have Susannah Manuel identified as a daughter of William and Providence Manuel of Exploits and Twillingate, NL. Apparently Susannah was a sister of William Manuel Jr., who married Mary Ann Dibben of Wimborne Minster, at Poole, Dorset in 1866.

I can provide you with this additional information, and a copy of the photograph of Susannah Manuel and Samuel Anstey, if you desire it. Please inform me of the most convenient way to transmit this collection to you.

Ron, and now a question for you, if you have the time....do you have any information on the very early John Manuel, whose ships traversed the ocean between England and Newfoundland during the 1700's, and the three sons of this John Manuel.....Joseph Manuel, Samuel Manuel, and William Manuel, who settled in Newfoundland in the mid 1700's (likely first at Greenspond and/or Twillingate, and later at Exploits) ? Where in England was the homeland of this early John Manuel.....Cornwall maybe ?

Hello,

You may contact me direct on ronmanuel@hotmail.co.uk.

Peter is a great friend of mine, and his wife was a bridesmaid at my wedding in 1963.

Now, regarding the Manuel family before Newfoundland, there is a rather obscure link that has come to light. The problem is the dates and the number of "john manuels"!

My ggrandfather, William Manuel, b1836, married Mary Ann Dibben, b 1845, at Wimborne in 1865. His father is listed on the marriage certificate as William, and his birthplace as Newfoundland.

William Manuel, b 1802 in Newfoundland, married Providence ? and died in 1877.

Williams' father was also William (no dates as yet) who had two brothers Joseph and Samuel, and their father was John Manuel who (I think) married Elizabeth Owens (?) in 1757 and emigrated to Newfoundland.

The problem I have is the link to previous john manuels.

There is a tentative link to a John Manuel, b 1655, and Providence Whitford, b 1659, married 1672 in Gwenapp, Cornwall.

Johns' parents were Francis Manuel, b1621, and Mary Richard, b 1621, and they were married in 1672 in Gwenapp, Cornwall.

Francis was the son of Robert Manuel, b 1595, and Bridget Basalye, b 1595, married 1620 at St. Columb Major, Cornwall.

Robert was the son of John Manuel, b1569, and Margaret Spray, b 1569.

The dates make me think that these should all be taken with a pinch of salt.

Keep in touch.

Ron

Fogo Island - Anglican Parish Marriage Records:

John Manuel of Exploits Burnt Island, widower, and Elizabeth Owen of Fogo - 8 Oct. 1858 - at St. Andrew's Anglican Church, Fogo.

Food for thought......

Quote - "Another famous Twillingate resident was John Peyton Jr. His father, John Sr., first came to Newfoundland in 1770. Peyton Senior traded in fish and furs on the Exploits River. His relations with the native Beothuk were even less amicable than usual and he was said to have been harsh in his retaliation for Native 'pilfering' of goods. In 1812 Peyton's son, John Jr.-born in the family's home town of Wimborne, England in 1793-accompanied him to Newfoundland. Like his father, John experienced losses at the hands of the Beothuck, but appears to have been more even handed in his approach to them. Peyton is best remembered for his dealings with these people, especially the women Demasduit and Shanawdithit (See Beothuk section). Still, this is far from the only contribution made to the area by John Peyton. Aside from his own merchanting activities, he became Twillingate district's first Justice of the Peace (1818) and the area's first Magistrate in 1836. John died in 1879. His son Thomas was himself a member of Newfoundland's House of Assembly, a magistrate and Justice of the Peace. John Peyton's greatest gift to the town of Twillingate may be his correspondence. Between his diary and other writings Peyton left an invaluable record of nineteenth century Twillingate."

The following statement is attributed to the Peyton Family Collection of Papers and Writings:

"The first settlers at Exploits Burnt Island was Manuels' from Gersey; Seiviours' and Budgell from England".

The aforementioned reference in the Peyton collection seems to suggest the homeland of the early Manuels' at Exploits was Jersey (Gersey) in the Channel Islands.

The Manuel surname is found in Jersey, Channel Islands. There are at least thirteen Manuel individuals listed at Jersey, in the 1841 Channel Island census.

Maybe we should be concentrating on Jersey, Channel Islands, rather than elsewhere in England, as the homeland of the early Manuels' of Greenspond, Twillingate, and Exploits.

Ron:

Additional clarification......

I had initially pencilled in William Manuel (1802-1877), who was married to Providence, as a son of Samuel Manuel of Exploits. A recent study of the 1836 census report for Exploits, and other writings, has convinced me that the aforementioned William Manuel was not a son of Samuel Manuel, rather he was a son of William Manuel Sr. of Exploits. In fact, the households of William Manuel Sr. and William Manuel Jr. are included in the 1836 census for Exploits.

William Jr. and Providence Manuel were residents of Exploits until the mid-1800's, when they relocated to reside at Snellings Cove, near Back Harbour, on the Twillingate North Island.

Here is some of the information I have on file respecting the William and Providence Manuel family.

William Manuel, born circa 1802, is considered to have been the son of William Manuel Sr. of Exploits.

William Manuel Jr. married Providence, who was born circa 1807.

The household of William Manuel Jr. is included in the 1836 census report for Exploits, showing three males and three females in the household.

William and Providence Manuel had the following identified children: Susannah Manuel, who was born on January 14, 1832, who married Samuel Anstey, and who died on October 14, 1910, at Twillingate; William Manuel; Ambrose Manuel; James Manuel; Uriah Manuel; Samuel Manuel, who was born on January 9, 1843, at Exploits; John Henry Manuel, who was born circa 1845, at Exploits, and who married (1) Unknown, and (2) Martha (White) Moores; Eleanor Manuel, who was born on November 14, 1847, at Exploits; Valentine Manuel, who was born in 1852, who was baptised on June 26, 1853 at Exploits, and who married Elizabeth Noseworthy; and Ann Manuel.

An excerpt from the William Young Diary states that, "Slade built a vessel called the Hanson. Alfred Manuel, William Manuel, brother to Mrs. Anstey, and John Moss went sailing in her. William Manuel settled down in England and married the daughter of the captain that he used to sail with. The captain's name was De....(spelling is difficult to decipher)"

A subsequent excerpt from the William Young Diary states that, "Samuel Anstey, son of John Anstey of Paradise, married Susannah Manuel, daughter of William Manual, who came from Exploits and settled in Snellings Cove. His sons were William, Ambrose, Samuel, James, John, Valentine, and Uriah. William went to sea in Slade's vessel called the Hanson. He married the captain's daughter and settled in Poole and he spent his life sailing and became a captain. Ambrose also went to sea and the last letter anyone had from him was written to his sister Ann who lived in St. John's. He was then leaving Inverness in Scotland bound to India. He was supposed to have died of yellow fever as there were whole crews that died out there at that time and not enough to bring the vessel home."

William Manuel, son of William and Providence Manuel of Exploits and Twillingate, departed Newfoundland when he was a young man. He is likely the William Manuel, mariner, identified in the Poole, Dorset, England records, who was born circa 1836 in Newfoundland, son of William Manuel; who married in 1866, at Poole, Dorset, to Mary Ann Dibben of Wimborne Minster, Dorset; who is included in the 1911 census for Poole, Dorset as being a widower, and residing with his daughter Amelia Manuel at 35 Green Road, Poole; and who died in 1914, at Poole, Dorset. William Manuel and Mary Ann Dibben had the following identified children: William J. Manuel, who was born circa 1867; Ambrose Manuel, who was born circa 1869; Harriet Louisa Manuel, who was baptised on November 6, 1872, at Poole, Dorset; Samuel George Manuel, who was baptised on October 18, 1876, at Poole, Dorset; Thomas Manuel, who was born circa 1883; and Amelia Manuel, who was born circa 1885.

William Manuel Jr. (born circa 1802) died and was buried at Twillingate, on August 17, 1877.

Providence Manuel died at Twillingate, on July 18, 1883, and was buried on July 20, 1883.

I have additional information on the various members of this family....too extensive to include here.

Do your own due diligence, please.

Milt,

Thanks for all that, and I guess it will take a while to thoroughly digest.

At first glance, there is one aspect I can modify.

You mention the William Young Diary (something I've not heard of), and which states that "William Manuel married the captains daugther and settled in Poole and spent his life sailing and became a captain."

William did settle in Poole, and his eldest son, William John (b1866, d1935), was my grandfather. William married Mary Ann Dibben in 1865, daughter of John Dibben and Jane Lock.

William and Marys' Marriage Certificate lists Williams' father as William Manuel (occupation fisherman) and Marys' father as John Dibben (occupation coachsmith). The marriage was at St James Church, which at that time was the Parish Church of Poole.

This differs from the William Young Diary, so I checked the census records for 1851 and 1861. Mary Ann Dibben is listed on each. In 1851, she is residing with her maternal grandmother, Ann Dibben at 121 Eastbrook in Wimborne, Dorset. In 1861, she is living with her mother and father in Poole, and they reside at the "Britannia Inn" on The Quay, Poole. John Dibben is listed as a Publican.

I then checked the 1851 census to see where John Dibben was. He is resident with his wife, Jane, at "30 on The Quay", Poole, and is listed as being a Coachsmith & Publican.

There is no reference at all of William marying the captains daughter, unless bigamously.

BTW, my mother told me that the "Dibbens" as she called them, were distant relatives, but I was never told how they were related. Interestingly, "the Dibbens" now own and run a number of motor sales and service establishments around the Wimborne and Poole area. The occupation of "coachsmith" is not too far removed from automobile engineering.

It's all very interesting, but I do wish there wern't so many "williams"!!!

Ron