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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:48 pm 
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Hello and thank you for re-posting this earlier note, which included a reference to the Scurry/Rogers discussion. Your posting has reminded me that I should enter this discussion to help resolve the topic, if that is possible.

I'm not sure if anyone is still interested, as this posting thread started several years ago and maybe this topic has been resolved; but I want to take the time to clarify the surname of my great grandmother; which is MaryAnn SCURRY--not Rogers!

My great grandparents were Richard Angel and MaryAnn Scurry and they were married at the R.C. Basilica in St. John's on November 26,1870.

Richard Angel was the son of John Angel and Mary Shannahan from Petty Harbour. He was baptized June 1838 and died October 11,1904, although his headstone shows October 11,1903.

MaryAnn Scurry was the daughter of Michael Skully and Johann Bolan. She was baptized Sept.22, 1844. (This information about her birth needs to be further validated). She died June 13, 1921, which is the date that is shown on her headstone.

Richard and Mary Ann had 6 children ( 4 sons and 2 daughters) born between January 1872 and January 1885. My grandfather John Angel born 1881 was their only son who married and had children. I believe their other three sons ( John, May 1875; Michael , Oct.1876; and Lawrence, Jan. 1885) died young. Their two daughters married and had children. Sarah Jane , Jan. 1872; married Michael Murphy and Margaret, Nov. 1873; married John Fleming. The baptism records for all 6 of Richard's and MaryAnn's children reflect that the mother's name was Scurry/Skully. It seems The Scurry/Skully names were used interchangeably. The baptisms for their first child (Sarah) indicates the mother's name was Elizabeth Scully, although it is difficult to read. Their is no reference to the name Rogers in any of the baptism/birth records.

Richard and MaryAnn are buried together in Mt. Carmel cemetery in St. John's along with their daughter Sarah and her husband and children. Richard and MaryAnn's son Lawrence is also buried in the same plot. There is only one headstone, which is very readable and it identifies the names of the people buried under the headstone. The headstone itself was "erected by Michael Murphy , to the memory of his children who died in infancy".There is no reference to Mary Ann's maiden name on this headstone. Perhaps there is yet another headstone with the names of Richard Angel and MaryAnn Rogers, as has been suggested, but I could not find it. There is another headstone close by to the one described above for another Richard Angel and was erected by his wife Bridget(?). This one is difficult to read.

One of Richard's 8 sisters married James Rogers. I am not yet certain but they may have had a daughter named MaryAnn. This would be Richard's niece?? Who knows how confusion starts when we are tracing our family history??

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

Regards.


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:22 pm 
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Thank you for the additional information on the family of Richard Angel and Mary Scurry.
I have their son Lawrence Angel dying on 19 June 1896.

I think I am missing a sister of John Angel. I have Sarah (1832); Mary (c1834); Anne
(1836); Jane (1840); Rose (1842); Ellen (1845); and Theresa (1850). I have three sons
for John Angel and Mary Shannahan: Richard (1838; Joseph (1844); and William (c1855).


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:37 pm 
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Hi Pat:

Richard Angel & Mary Ann Scurry had another daughter, Gertrude, Apr 1886 - 19 Feb 1978, married Benedict Fleming, 14 Nov 1876 - 14 Jul 1955, brother to the above John Fleming and son of Nicholas Fleming & Alice Phelan. Gertrude & Benedict had four children: Mary, Edward, Samuel, Nicholas.
Richard Angel's sister, Rosanna (bp 4 Sep 1842 - 24 Aug 1920), married Edward James Rogers (1839 - 14 May 1907). They had 7 children: Edward; James John; Stephen Joseph; Mary Ann; Bridget Joseph; Rosanna; Etta.


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:22 am 
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Ed,
The children of John Angel & Mary Shanahan that I have are:
Sarah (5 Oct 1832 - ), m. John Reddy
Mary (c1834 - 3 Aug 1900; m1 Charlie Williams, m2 Michael Murphy
Ann (Jun 1836- aft 1880); m Richard Escott
Richard m. Mary Ann Scurry
Jane (17 Apr 1840-27 Apr 1928) m. William J. Walsh
Rosanna (Sep 1842-24 Aug 1920) m. Edward James Rogers
Joseph (Sep 1844-26 Nov 1914) m1 Catherine Chafe; m2 Mary Flannigan
Mary Ellen (22 Dec 1846- 21 Sep 1931) m. James Sullivan
Elizabeth (Jul 1852-5 Jan 1892) m1 Henry Wm. Kieley; m2 Philip Walsh
William (Mar 1855 - aft 1921) m. Alice Power
Theresa (30 Sep 1856 - ?)

Looks like you were missing Elizabeth.

Hope this helps!


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:50 pm 
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Hi Ed
The date you have for Lawrence's death June 19, 1896 matches the date on the headstone.

Hi Trish

I did not have any info on Gertrude . So thanks for that. It is interesting that her name was not listed in the family notes I received, but seeing her name here sorts out another puzzle about the family. I will look for more information about her.

I'm still researching John Angel and Mary Shannahan's family and as we chatted earlier this year, I would like to validate some of the information, that has been posted through this link and other sites about the family, especially about William. Another example is Elizabeth marrying Philip Watts. I think there was an Elizabeth Angel who married a Phillip Watts, but I'm not sure it was the same Elizabeth who married Henry Kieley-- I could be wrong? I will have to check my notes!

I will get back to you at some point!!

All the best!


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:44 pm 
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Philip Watts is first recorded as living in Petty Harbour in 1733. His will is dated 1776.
It is said that he was from Exeter. The identity of of his wife Elizabeth is unproven.
His sister/daughter(?) was reputedly Mary, the wife of Philip Bidgood.


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:09 pm 
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Hi Trish; hope all is well with you. It has been months.

I have not worked on the Angel name this winter as I have been focusing on other family names this year. I will probably continue with the other names this year but as always there are a few loose ends and one of those continue to be Gertrude, mentioned previously.

I have not been able to find a Gertrude Angel, as part of my great grand parents (Richard Angel and MaryAnn Scurry Angel) family.

I have a Gertrude Hannaford who married Benedict Fleming (1903 August 04). Perhaps there is some confusion around this record?

Any info you could share is always helpful.

I will post some other information/questions on those over the next week or so and that may be it for the Angel name this winter.

As always, thanks for your help.


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:34 pm 
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Hi Pat:
Nice to hear from you. It has been some time but that's the way things go, especially with genealogy. You just pick up where you left off.
The information I had on "Gertrude Angel" came from your sister, Anna. She didn't give me a marriage date just the 'fact' that Gertrude was a daughter of Richard & Mary Ann who married Benedict Fleming. I didn't follow up too much on it other than to find some death information on Benedict and the names of the children.
I don't have a Gertrude Hannaford who would be the right age to marry this Benedict Fleming. Do you know her parents names? Do you have a copy of the marriage record?
It's always to good to tie up any loose ends! It will be nice to settle Gertrude Angel's 'fate'.


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:06 pm 
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Hi Trsih

Yes, it is sad that my sister is no longer here and participating in the discussions. So I have picked up the trail.

I think it is possible that any confusion about Gertrude's position in the family (or not) could have started with the 1921 census.

First, I am attaching a section of the census, along with the marriage record for Gertrude Hanaford as well her baptism. And then I will explain.

1921 census St. John’s West dwelling 84 family 93
FLEMING Benedict M Head Married 1878 Dec 43 St.John's
FLEMING Gertrude F Wife Married 1886 April 35 Petty Harbour
LEMING Mary F Daughter Single 1911 Oct 10 St.John's
FLEMING Edwd M Son Single 1912 Jan 9 St.John's
FLEMING Samuel M Son Single 1914 Dec 7 St.John's
ANGEL Mary F Mother in Law Widow 1846 Aug 75 Petty harbour

Note Mary Angel as Mother in Law from Petty Harbour. I though this could have been Mary Ann Scurry Angel, whcih could mean Gertrude was her daughter, until I realized she died before the 1921 census started, so it could not be her.

1903 August 04
MARRIED: Benedict Fleming (25) and Gertrude Hannaford (24); R C , St, John’s; witness Richard Cooper and Minnie Partridge; NVR Marriages 1901- 1905, page 38 # 15; N-VR on line image 39/493

1883 April 08
BAPTIZED: Hannaford, Gertrude; parents Samuel Hannaford and Mary Flanagan; sponsors John Healey and Rose Hefferman; St. Kevin’s Parish Baptisms 1883; page 26

There is some inconsistency with dates, as Gertrude's marriage says she was 24, which would put her birth as ~~1879, not 1883. But this is all I could find.

Note Mary Flanagan as Gertrude's mother. Could this be the Mary Flanagan who (re-married) Joseph Angel (Richard's brother). I believe you have posted a picture of their headstone on NLGB. This would explain how Benedict has a mother in law with a surname Angel, while his wife was a Hannaford. Gertrude's mother re-married Joseph Angel on 1900 October 01. So, there is enough of a connection with the Angel family name, especially the family of Richard, that information gets lost in the translation??

So, as much as I can be certain with this type of information, I believe the children of my great- great- grandparents Richard and Mary Ann Scurry Angel were:

1). Sarah Jane born 1872, married Michael Murphy. Richard,Mary Ann and their son Lawrence are buried with Sarah in the Murphy family plot at Mount Carmel. I sent you a pic of their headstone last year.

2). Margaret born 1873, married John Fleming

3). John born 1875, died young. Another son named John born 1881-my grandfather

4). Michael Joseph born 1876, died young

5). John Joseph born 1881, married Anastatia Flynn-- my grandparents

6). Lawrence born 1885, died 1896. We discovered we have a picture of him about a year before he died and recently found a pic of his headstone on Stonepics.

The was some discussion that there was another daughter Catherine/Kate but I have not found any information on her nor a Gertrude Angel. They can always be added to the list if a record is found.

Hope this is not too much detail.

I plan a similar trail as above for Richard's parents (John and Mary Shannahan Angel) and MaryAnn Scurry parents. I know a lot of information has been posted here about the Angel family of John and Mary and that has been helpful. But as you know I have some questions/doubts and loose ends.

Not sure I will get to all of that this year, but I plan to post some new information (new to me that is) over the next week or two, if you are interested in that.

Trish, thank you again for staring this posting over 5 years ago. It seems to be very active and has helped me a lot.


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:29 pm 
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Pat, right on. The 1921 Census is confusing but you have made the proper connections. The "Mary Angel, Mother-in-law, widow" would indeed be Mary Flannigan, widow of Samuel Hannaford and of Joseph Angel, and mother of Gertrude Hannaford. This also explains the naming of Benedict & Gertrude's 2nd son, Samuel.

So, we can eliminate "Gertrude Angel" from the family of Richard Angel & Mary Anne Scurry.

Thanks Pat!


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:05 pm 
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Trish,

I guess I have moved back to the Angel family name for a few hours this winter. Hopefully not for long but it is always good to do a refresh.

I have re-read this posting thread and noticed a request almost 5 years ago from SJ-Angell looking for information on Stephen Angel.

There was a Catholic family of Stephen Angel, from Petty Harbour, who married Susan Brine in 1836 and I also found several baptisms for them from ~~1838 to ~~1857.

Perhaps SJ-Angell's request has been answered, He/she has not been active for awhile;but if he/she (or others) is still interested in this family I will go through my notes and find the time to post the info on this thread.

I tried to answer his/her posting but it did not work, so we continue with this thread.!

Regards


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:39 pm 
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Pat, Sarah Angell is in Australia and she has married since her posting and changed her email. I will try and find her new one. she actually made a trip to St. John's and Petty Harbour a few years back. I put her in touch with Ray Leaman and he gave her a tour and had a great discussion with her.

I know that Ed Chafe and I would be interested in hearing about Stephen Angel as well, so anything you can share will not go to waste!


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:25 pm 
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No problem Trish, I understand the value in sharing as it has helped me get to where I am with the Angel family search.

Give me a day or two to review my notes and check for accuracy.

Stay tuned.


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:28 pm 
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Hello Trish and Ed; still getting through my notes on Stephen Angel's family. Should not take long but while doing that I came across a record I knew I had, concerning the marriages of Elizabeth Angel. You may have all this info already but thought I would send it along.

I may have confused the marriage of Elizabeth and Phillip Walsh in 1890 with a much earlier marriage (1700's?) of Elizabeth Angel and Phillip Watts, as noted by Ed.

I think one of the earlier posts, in this thread, suggests Elizabeth (daughter of John and Mary Shannahan Angel) remarried Philip Walsh; maybe I misunderstood?
But just to close another loose end for me; here is a summary of what I have gathered.

There were 2 Elizabeth Angel’s, that I have found (during this period) and two different marriages. Elizabeth (1852) of John and Mary Shannahan Angel married Henry Kieley in 1877 and had 7 children; Henry died at age 40, one month before the birth of their last child Rosanna. His death was noted on her baptism/birth record. This baptism occurred in 1892, after the marriage of the second Elizabeth Angel to Philip Walsh in 1890. I believe this second one is most likely Elizabeth (1865) of Henry Angel and Mary Williams. I have one baptism in 1891 for Elizabeth and Philip, there may be more.

Hope this makes sense to you!

Pat


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:34 pm 
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STEPHEN ANGEL

Hi Trish and Ed; I have gone through my notes and here is what I have for Stephen Angel and Susanna Brine. I have not thoroughly researched this family, as I do not believe, at this point, that there is a strong enough connection with Richard and MaryAnn Angel. I may look into this again, if I find a stronger link.

Note the marriage record which says that Stephen was “of Petty Harbour”. At some point, the family moved to St. John’s as the last baptism record indicates they are in St. John’s; although that could be questioned?

There is also an 1881 marriage record for Stephen Angel and Mary Colbert, both of St. John’s. I’ve included any baptisms that I have for them; AND a baptism for another Stephen Angel in 1866.

Finally, there are MT. CARMEL cemetery transcriptions on this NLGB site, for this family. So I do not need to re-post that here. I have visited the grave site but have not recorded any info.

This is what I was able to piece together, from my notes; there may be other marriages and/or baptisms than the following: I’ve checked for accuracy, but there is always a chance to make a mistake!

STEPHEN ANGEL and SUSANNA BRINE

November 19, 1836; MARRIED
Married; Stephen Angel of Petty Harbour & Susanna Bine; Witness. James Stack and Mary or Fanny Kinsella; --- Surnames given for Susan on different baptism records --Brine, Broyle, Bryan

Births/Baptisms
1838 December 12;
Angel, John; John of Stephen Angel and Susana Bryan; Sponsors Stephen Hannaford and Mary Hannaford;

7 year gap—may have missed some baptisms?

1845 Jan.26
Angel, Samuel; parents Stephen Angel and Susanna Brine: Sponsors John Walsh and Ann Angel

1848 April 27;
Angel, Thomas; parents Stephen Angel and Susan Brine; Sponsors John French and Hanna Dunphy

1852 July 4;
Angel, Stephen; parents Stephen Angel and Susan Broyle; Sponsors Michael Coady and Mary Brummager ;

1854, Jan 29;
Angel, James; parents Stephen Angel and Susan Bryan; Sponsors Jno Birmingham and Bridget Dunphy;



1857 February 17;
Stephen Angel; Parents Stephen Angel & Susanna Brien of St. John’s; Sponsors: James Dunphy and Jane Angel; Likely that first Stephen (1852) died young; note that family is now St. John’s, according to priest’s notations ???


STEPHEN AND MARY COLBERT ANGEL

1881 January 14: MARRIED
Stephen Angel and Mary Colbert, both of St. John’s; witness James Coady and Catherine Clais(?);

Not sure which Stephen married Mary Colbert? 1857 STEPHEN (son of Stephen and Susanna) would be aged ~~ 24; and 1866 Stephen below (son of John Angel and Mary Finn) would be aged ~~16/17- more likely 1857 Stephen??

Births/Baptisms

1883 January 28
Angel, Mary Ann; parents Stephen Angel & Mary Colbert, Duckworth Street; sponsors Luke Linegar & Mary Hckey;

1884 December 03
Angell, Bridget Joseph; parents Stephen Angel & Mary Colbert, Theater Hill; Sponsors John Browne & Sydney Angel;

1886 April 20; (1 week old)
Angel, Stephen; parents Stephen Angel and Mary Colbert, Theater Hill; Sponsors: Michael Linegar & Mary Anne Gatherall;

1890 January 7
Angel, Edith Agnes; parents Stephen Angel & Mary Colbert, Theater Hill; Sponsors: William Fleming & Mary Murray;

I stopped recording baptisms for this family at 1890—there could be more after this?

AND THE OTHER STEPHEN ANGEL

1866 October 1
Angel, Stephen Joseph; parents John Angel and Mary Flinn of Riverhead; Sponsors: James Angel and Bridget Angel;


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:27 pm 
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Pat, I am sick right now so please give me a few days of rest before I reply.


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:33 pm 
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-------------------------------
Newfoundland 1921 Census St. John's West WARD 4 (Part 4) Pages 1 - 15
Dwelling Family SurName Given Name Sex Rela. Status Birth Yr Birth Mo Age Birth Place
GILBERT STREET
297 352 ANGEL Stephen M Head Married 1885 July 35 St. John's
ANGEL Marg't F Wife Married 1890 Sept 30 St. John's

**This may be your Stephen born 1 Oct 1866, s/o John Angel & Mary Flinn.

I don't have a John Angel married to a Mary Flinn.....yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:38 pm 
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ST PATRICKS ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH, St John's Newfoundland Part 1 BAPTISMS 1880-1881
CHILD'S NAME NAME OF FATHER NAME OF MOTHER DATE OF BIRTH PLACE OF BIRTH DATE OF BAPTISM REMARKS/RESEARCH NOTES
Susannah ANGEL Stephen ANGEL Mary COLBERT b May 13 1881 St. Johns bap May 14 1881


1935 CENSUS St. John's East - PAGES 585 - 599 Ward 4
DWELLING FAMILY SURNAME GIVEN NAME REL TO HEAD SEX MARITAL STATUS AGE
120 122 ANGELL Mary Head F W 77
MOORE Mary Daughter F W 42

121 123 ANGELL Robert Head M M 39
ANGELL Bridget Wife F M 31
ANGELL Stephen Son M S 15
WALSH Richard Boarder M S 44

**Mary Angell, aged 77, would be Mary (Colbert) Angel. Mary Moore would be her daughter Minnie who married William Moore. **"Minnie" could actually be "Mary Ann".

Robert Angell, aged 39, lived next door to his mother, Mary (Colbert) Angell. He was born @1892.


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:53 pm 
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Name: John Angel Gender: Male
Residence: St. John's, Newfoundland
Event Type: Marriage Marriage Date: 26 Oct 1876
Spouse : Mary (Mrs.) Strenger
Spouse Residence: St. John's, Newfoundland
Cleric 1 Name: Rev. Dunn
Reference Date 1: 4 Jan 1876

Source: North Star and St. John's, Newfoundland News 1872-1881

Does anybody know who this John Angel was?


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:43 pm 
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Hi Trish; great to hear from you.

I can't believe it has been almost two years since I last posted here about Stephen Angell.

I have the following information readily available as I had started an analysis of the John Angels of that era, trying to prove/disprove a theory I had. I did not finish the analysis (yet) so here it what I have:Probably won\t answer your question though!

I have at least four candidates for the following marriages involving a John Angel

Wife's Name Date of Marriage COMMENT

Mary Flynn 1863/11/05 Bridget Angel was a sponsor
Jane Fitzgerald 1871/11/22 she died 1872 Nov 13th; he may have remarried
Elizabeth Soper 1874/04/30
Mary Ann Joy 1876/02/20 Some say he was son of Edward/Williams; could be second marriage, after Scanlon?
Mrs. Mary Stenger 1876/10/26

There are other marriages involving a John Angel before and after this time period.

I plan to get back to this analysis, but that might take some time, as I am following other information.

I have been very active trying to sort out a few unresolved questions. I assume there will always be unresolved questions.

I have found a lot of information about Samuel and Sarah et al that I could post here. For example, I have Samuel Angell’s signature on a document dated 1711, which proves he was living in NL by then. He has actually left quite a paper trail from 1711 to 1734, which was the year his will was proven in Court. I have analyzed his will also. And his son John shows up later as well.

So your posting has prompted me to finish reviewing my notes so that I can post something here, if anyone is interested ?

It will take a few weeks to condense my notes into something that I could post. Meanwhile, any questions about the above information are always welcome.

Pat


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:12 pm 
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Trish, I've been thinking about your request re John Angell and Stringer;

I will find time to look at what I did in the past and hopefully we can identify which John Angell married her; or at least narrow the options.

Give me a few days to look at it.

Pat


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:08 pm 
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Hi Trish:
I believe this John Angel may be from an Angel family in Bonavista Bay or Grand Falls and not likely from the Petty Harbour Angels? As my focus is on the Petty Harbour Angels, I have not researched those other Angel families. But I cannot place this John Angel in the Anglican/Catholic Angels of Petty Harbour.

Rev Dunn, the minister at this wedding, appears as minister in various marriages recorded at the Methodist Parsonage and/or Wesleyan Parsonage. Unfortunately the church record for this marriage is not available due to fire at United Church in St. John’s.

The other Angel family in St. John’s at this time was the United Nail and Foundry Angels, who were also Methodist. Their family genealogist confirms that their John Angel married Elizabeth Soper, which was on the list I sent here last week. He was married four times but not to a Mrs. Strenger.

The name Stringer (not Strenger) appears in various places in Trinity Bay as early as 1835 and about the time of this marriage. The name Angel is found in Bonavista Bay, Grand Falls, Fogo (to name a few) in the same time period as this marriage. Perhaps this John Angel and Mrs. Mary Strenger moved into St. John’s before they were married. I did a quick search for any baptisms for them, but did not find any.

Sorry, I could not identify him but If I find anything more I will let you know.
Pat


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:09 pm 
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Pat, if the Minister was Methodist, then there is little likelihood of this John Angel belonging to our Petty Harbour group.

Thanks for checking on that!

Trishe


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:28 pm 
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Hi Trish;
Always another question! I think I have finally figured this out but need to ask, just to make it go away.
I spent many research hours, which resulted in all this new-old information (which I will post shortly), to resolve an outstanding question, which is:
Did John Angell who married Mary Shannahan (they are my g-g-grandparents) originate/arrive from England or was he born in Petty Harbour? I now think it is very likely that he was born in Petty Harbour on or before 1800 August 08 and his parents were Richard Angel and Sara Phelan BUT;
1) An earlier contributor to this posting thread, who is also a G-G-Grandchild of John/Shannahan indicated that he had family notes that said John was from England and Mary was from Ireland.
2) I recently found a hand written note in our own family files which simply says “John Angel from Salisbury England to Petty Harbour”. Nothing more than that, but there it is! It was part of a family tree that my Aunt made, maybe in 1970’s? The way it is positioned in her tree suggests it could be John/Shannahan, but it could also mean an earlier John Angel than him?
3). There is an Ancestry posting that says John who married Shannahan was from England born about 1809. I understand that may not always be correct.

Any thoughts?

Stay tuned for some really old stuff. It may already be old stuff for the more experienced researchers, who visit this site, but it is new to me and might help the next new researcher who comes along.

Thanks as always

Pat


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:33 pm 
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In 1991 I made a research trip to Salisbury. The oral tradition in Petty Harbour is that Samuel Angel's son John inherited Salisbury Plain. I did locate a marriage for the girl who was supposedly the heiress to the Angel estate but I did not find evidence that she was a heiress.

A careful analysis of the Catholic records shows there is a pattern to the choice of witnesses for births and marriages. In 1810, "James Power" was the Godfather to the son of Richard Angel & Sarah Phelan. In 1813, James Power married Sarah Angel, a native of St. John's. The Godparents of Eleanor Power baptized in 1815 were both residents of Petty Harbour.

In 1812, Sarah Angel was the Godmother to the son of Thomas Madden & Mary Phelan of Petty Harbour. Mary Phelan Madden was the sister of Sarah Phelan who married Richard Angel.

The strong ties to Petty Harbour continue to be strong in the mid-1800s:

Married 12 November 1851, Richard Angel & Ellen Hearn
Witesses: William Shanahan & Mary Everard

Married 25 May 1852, Henry Angel & Mary Williams
witnesses: William Shanahan & Mary Howlett

Married 24 November 1852, Henry Pridham & Sarah Angel
Witnesses: William Shanahan & Anne Pridham

The witnesses and Godparents for Richard Angel & Sarah Phalen, and John Angel & Mary Shanahan suggest they were both in Newfoundland and part of an established kinship circle.


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:20 pm 
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Hello Ed; thank you for your reply and it is great to hear from you again.

I agree with your comments about using Church records to identify patterns. It is a tedious and time consuming process but if you stay at it there is a lot to be discovered. A few years ago I noticed the pattern between the Angell families of Samuel & French; John & Shannahan; Richard & Hearn; Henry & Williams. There are at least 8 instances where their children/grandchildren were witnesses/sponsors at marriages/baptisms for each other’s families, which continued into the 1880’s. I believed they had to be a “family unit” but was deterred by the thought that John was from England. I could not resolve the issue until Sarah baptized 1800/08/08 was placed, and then everything fell into place. I had the 1812 baptism were Sarah was the godmother for Madden and Phelan but was not astute enough to notice the significance of Phelan, as you noted. Also in 1818 Sarah was godmother for her sister Catherine Angel and in 1832 there were three Petty Harbour baptisms in the same day.
1). Sarah and James Power had son James baptized and Sarah’s brother Joseph was godfather;
2). her brother Samuel & French had daughter Margaret baptized
3). her brother John & Shannahan had daughter Sarah baptized.
Mary Angel was godmother to Margaret and Sarah; not sure if she was a sister but it seems possible.

I’ve seen the postings about the Pirate John Angel and the Estate in Salisbury and have tried not to look at it too much, as I am limiting my research to this side of the Atlantic for now. That being said, I will offer the following:

Our family’s oral history of the Angells from Petty Harbour includes a story relayed from a cousin, who knew our grandfather (John Angel 1881) better than most of us. She remembers a story about a John Angell (not our grandfather) owning lots of land in England and he had to return every year to register it. One year he was so sea sick he never went back and the land was lost?

I have not tried to sort out my confusion with the Angel Estate in Salisbury, owned by the pirate versus the one in Brixton, London, claimed by William Adrian Allery. I looked for the paper about the pirate John Angel that has been attributed to a MUN Professor, but did not find it at both MUN archives (MHA & CNS).

In 1916 Mr. Allery sent a letter to the Governor of NL, in which he wrote the following:

“I am the claimant of the Angel Estate in London and the provinces …. “I am a direct descendant of one John Angell who was a native of St. John’s Newfoundland and who died there about 1640 and made a will in favour of his sister….”

Mr. Allery was asking if there was any office here that would have a copy of this will. The government’s response said the registrar searched the records here but did not find any wills earlier than 1714. The response also said:

“Previous to the year 1740 any documents relating to property in Newfoundland were possibly sent to England and may, perhaps be found in the War Department at London.”

There is a third story about John Angel, which suggests he arrived in 1628 as part of a group of 40 Catholic settlers who were brought here to settle the Colony of Avalon, which included Petty Harbour. Unfortunately the Angell name does not appear on any lists of early settlers.

There is enough similarity between the different versions to suggest that there was a John Angell in these parts in the 1630’s / 1640’s and that he had wealth/property. The earliest reference I found to an Angell in NL was three generations (80 years) later in 1711. And Samuel Angell’s 1734 will suggests he had some wealth/property.

That’s enough for now. Hope this is not too much!

And Ed; thanks for the Thomas Ruck Ledgers. I read about your involvement in getting this great resource to NL in the 1989 NL Ancestor. You might be happy to know that 25+ years later they are being researched again, for the first time. I went through the ledgers last month. Amazing research material!

Pat


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:25 pm 
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For the many descendants of Samuel and Sarah Angel; or Samuel and Lucy Angel

As I posted here in January, the following is a summary of the paper trail Samuel Angel left during his life here in NL, from 1711 to 1734.

In 2014, I researched Professor Matthews’ Name File at the Maritime History Archive at MUN and found several references for the Angel surname. Most of these references were for the Colonial Office Records (C.O.R.), available on microfilm at the Provincial Archives. This past winter I was finally able to review the C.O.R. The records describe living conditions; events of the day etc and my summary could be different than another person who looks at the same records. The reference co-ordinates are provided for anyone who wants to check source documents themselves.

“Words that are in quotations and italics are transcribed directly from the C.O.R.”
All other words are my comments and/or interpretation of the records.

(1) 1711 January 21; PETITION TO QUEEN ANN (C.O.194/24 page 25 - 44)

Samuel’s signature is on a document with approximately 70 other inhabitants, who are described as ”all the best inhabitants that are masters of families”; they thank Queen Ann for regulating them into a Militia, under the command of John Collins; and they recommend John Collins for Governor of Fort William. Letters by John Collins indicate that they inhabitants occupied the Fort in 1710, which puts Samuel and his family in NL at least one year earlier.

It seems everyone moved into the Fort William at St. John’s:
“….the violent outrages of our barbarous neighbors, … whose bold attempts on our Coasts, have rendered the adjacent unfortified harbours most dangerous, as would our residing at St. John’s, had not your Royal Majesty’s Royal Wisdom thought proper to order our being Regulated into a Militia and to be put under the command of John Collins ESq …………”

In 1711, Samuel was married to Sarah and they had daughter Mary and possibly Sarah and there were 4 children from his first marriage to Lucy (Samuel, Elizabeth, Lucy and Clare). Samuel and Sarah had three other children who were likely born in NL between 1712 and about 1720 (John, Susanna and Ann).

“the resident population in 1711 was 1925 men, 190 women and 278 children” (C.O. 194/5 page 22- 25)*
*secondary source 1711 Newfoundland Convoy, page 65, William R. Miles

(2) 1713 – 1722: SAMUEL ANGEL of Petty Harbour: RUCK LEDGERS: Archives Microfilm
Thomas Ruck was a trader from New England who maintained a ledger of business conducted in NL from 1713 to 1722. Samuel Angel’s name was found in most years from 1713 to 1722. The ledgers record Samuel traded quintals of fish for goods such as barrels of pork, tobacco, casks of flour and rum. His dealings with Ruck do not seem as significant as other inhabitants who traded for larger items like lumber and cattle. I have a theory about this but it needs more research!

(3) 1720 December 24: PETITION TO LORDS OF TRADE (C.0.194/7 Pages 21-23)
Samuel was one of ten (10) inhabitants of Petty Harbour who signed a petition supporting Willian Kean; “They are at the mercy of many lawless men who come here and Kane is asking to be given the authority to conduct justice for robbery, murder and piracy cases”; This follows the murder of Thomas Foard, “one of the greatest employers in the fishery in Newfoundland” at Petty Harbour, three leagues from St. John's”.

(4) 1728 July 22: Samuel Angel of Pitty Harbour Newfoundland” signs his will: (note spelling Pitty)
This will is available from the Prerogative Court of Canterbury

(5) 1729 to 1730 and 1730 to 1731 (Winters): (C.0.194/8 Page 223 to 281)
Mr. (Samuel) Angel and Mr. (John) Chafe, both of Petty Harbour were among the first 31 Constables who were deemed …out of the inhabitants and planters, the best characters” to maintain law and order during the winter months.” This is when the Governor returned to England with the naval vessels that accompanied the fishing fleet.

(6) 1731 September 21: COURT CASE (C.O.194/9/page109)

Governor Henry Osborne acknowledges Samuel Angell’s ownership of his fishing stage; in a court hearing against Richard Newman and John Syston (?), Governor Osborne noted;

“And having examined and heard, several of the most ancient inhabitants of that harbor, and others who have fished there upwards of twenty years, upon oath, and finding by the said evidence, that is has been esteemed on the said Angels, who enjoys it in right of Thomas Ford’s will;”

Samuel enjoys rights to his own property because of Thomas Ford’s will, who as noted above was “one of the greatest employers in the fishery in NL”.

Understanding the relationship, if any, between John Collins, Thomas Ford and Samuel Angel is the basis for the theory I mentioned earlier.

The Angels and the Newmans argued over property until 1757 when Samuel’s son John gave over his property rights to Newman, in order to pay his debt. (C.O.S. GN2/1/A, Vol 2; 1752- 1758; page344-356)

(7) 1734 January 11: Samuel Angels signs a codicil to his will; and one month later 1734 February 11 his will is proven in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury. His will provides many clues about family members and dates that raise more questions than answers. I have some thoughts and/or theories. His will is an easy document to obtain, but very difficult to read and understand. I have spent many hours on it and still not finished. I am interested in sharing notes with anyone who has also analyzed the will.

Based on analysis of his will and from the above information, I estimate Samuel Angel was born about 1678 and died 1734 January or February; Aged 56 years.

That’s enough for now. Thank you for taking the time to read this and for any questions, answers, comments and/or edits, please post them here; or if you wish you can contact me through e- mail: pangel99@icloud.com

March 2017
Pat Angel
Great-Great-Great-Great-Great Grandson of Samuel and Sarah Angel
There must be thousands (?) of their descendants worldwide


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:48 pm 
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The Deviner Gazette reported the marriage of Elizabeth Mary Angel of Newfoundland to Thomas Gill of Sarum, St. Edmunds, on 5 July 1835. The article states that Mr. Angel died sixty years previous leaving a fortune worth a million stirling, including the Chrols estate near Lamberth. Mr. Gill must bear the name and arms of the Angel family.

I have been unable to identify Elizabeth Mary Angel nor her relationship to Mr. Angel. The oral history in Petty Harbour is that John Parnell brought the Angel will from England hidden in a clock. I suspect that John's wife was an Angel and the will appeared in Petty Harbour circa 1820-1835.


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:51 pm 
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Thanks Ed

I am aware of this Angel/Gill marriage, only because it was mentioned earlier in this posting thread. I never would have found that myself!

As a side note; my father and Mr. Burnham Gill, who was our NL Provincial Archivist in 1971, were good friends. I believe they discussed genealogy as it was Mr. Gill who gave my father the Allery letter that I mentioned here last month. There is nothing in my father’s notes that indicate they were aware of this Angel/Gill marriage?

I too have not been able to identify this Elizabeth Angel, although I gave it a shot. We know she is not daughter of Samuel Angel and Jane Jerrad, as their daughter Elizabeth married Lawrence Finn; and I do not think Edward Angel (m) Ann Watts Bidgood had a daughter Elizabeth. That leaves the other known Angel’s at the time (Richard, John, Chris and maybe Stephen) and as you know records are missing or incomplete for their families. I “placed” her in Chris Angel’s family, only because most of the other families converted to RC. Chris did not and I assume this Elizabeth was C.O.E. as she married in England. There are a lot of assumptions in there! Or she could be an Angell from Noggin Cove.

The information about the dates the clock showed up in Petty Harbour interests me. Thanks for that. I would like to think about this and see if I can fit it into my newest theory.

Pat


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:52 am 
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Hello,
My name is DeeDee Reid(Scurry) and,I would be very interested in any information you may have on the Scurry name.Not 100% sure but,I believe that Michael Scurry/Scully and Johana Bolan/Boland are my gr gr grparents,would appreciate any info that would be helpful to me in my search.

Dee Dee


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