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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:10 pm 
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Ed, that would be a good reason for the family to leave Petty Harbour! Now, my problem is - who were these people? They were presumably at least young adults, except for possibly John Sr., which would put their births between 1834 - 1850, giving them an age range of 14 - 30.

I have two Joseph Angel's - one born abt 1815 and the other born 1844 (he married Catherine Chafe & Mary Butler and was the son of John Angel & Mary Shanahan).

I only have one Henry, born 1810, s/o Richard Angel & Sarah Jane Phelan.

Richard Angel & Sarah Jane Phelan had a son Richard born abt 1816. I do not know who Richard Sr.'s father was. We also have Richard born 1838, s/o John Angel & Mary Shanahan.

If John Angel Sr. was John who married Mary Shanahan, and he was the head of the family who robbed Edward Doyle, this might explain why the other Angel families left Petty Harbour, and his family stayed - they were too poor to move.

A theory anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:25 pm 
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Ed:
For John Angel & Mary Shanahan, I have the following children:
Sarah bp 5 Oct 1832
Mary born abt 1834 m1 1856 Charles Williams m2 Michael Murphy
Ann bp 13 Jun 1836 m possibly an Escott
Richard bp 23 Jun 1838 m 1870 Mary Ann Rogers /Scurry
Jane bp 17 Apr 1840 m William Walsh
Rosanna bp 4 Sep 1842 m James Rogers
Joseph bp 29 Sep 1844 m11877 Catherine Chafe m2 Mary Butler
Mary Ellen born 22 Dec 1845 m 1871 James Sullivan
Theresa bp 5 Oct 1850 (I didn't have her before)
William born Mar 1855 m Alice ??

I have more on most of these relationships, including children.


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:15 am 
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Thanks for the info Trishe/Ed - I had some info on the children of John Angel and Mary Shanahan, however I have always lacked corroboration. I was particularly put off by the data I came across about this Angel line after I discovered a family tree indicating John Angel and Mary Shanahan were the "first" Petty Harbor Angels in about 1720. Of course the dates simply didn't match up.

Trishe - I had come across a reference to John Angel & Mary Shanahan's daughter Ann married to a Henry Escott, however these sources seemed to indicate she was born alternatively in Bristol, England or Wales.

Also, re: the existence of various Henry Angel's - I note that at the baptism of William Henry Williams (s/o Charles Williams and Mary Angel (d/o John Angel & Mary Shanahan), on 29 July 1857 at St. John's, the witnesses are listed as being Jane Angel and Henry Angel. Jane Angel could perhaps be his Aunt, but I'm unsure how Henry Angel fits in.

Also, Ellen Angel and Richard Ausbourne are listed at witnesses at the baptism of William's brother, John Thomas Williams on 12 Sept 1859 in St. John's.


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:00 pm 
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Sarah - I'll get back to you in a little while on your information. I apologize but want to run this by you both while it is still fresh in my mind.

In regards to the robbery of the store: it was owned by Henry Edward Chafe (married to Ann Doyle). He had Ann's brother, Neddy Doyle, run it. Now, according to my notes, Neddy Doyle left for Boston sometime after 1843 - Ed, you likely have notes on him. So, who took over the store? I had the culprits all lined up until I went back and saw that the robbery took place in 1864!

However, the story did make me go back and visit another question, in regards to our Richard Angels. We have already discussed Richard Angel (married Sarah Unknown) who had John & Sarah baptized in 1800. We also have Richard Angel married Sarah Jane Phelan, with issue Henry, Richard & Catherine, 1810 - 1818. The first 2 children were Anglican, the last three RC.

So, what if Richard, and possibly Sarah, simply converted to RC before 1810, and were thus the same family? Don't forget, it happened to others, including Richard's (Sarah Jane Phelan) brother, John born 1769. We know that Richard's (Sarah Unknown) son, John (baptized 1800 & married to Catherine Kecten (sic)), baptized his children RC. It would make sense that his father converted after John's birth and John was raised RC.

In essence we would have:
Richard Angel, born abt 1767, s/o John Angel & Miss Whitten, married Srah Jane Phelan:
John, bp 8 Aug 1800 Anglican (no birth date); raised RC
Sarah, bp 8 Aug 1800 Anglican (no birth date)
Henry, bp 19 Sep 1810 RC
Richard, bp 1816 RC
Catherine, bp 1818 RC
And there likely were others that fit in this family, judging by the gaps.

Comments and criticism please!


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:11 pm 
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Sarah & Ed:

I know what you mean about John (Mary Shanahan) being put forth as "the first Petty Harbour Angel". I think I have managed to convince the person of the error. It was caused by the old pirate story which, of course, had the dates all mixed up.

I do not think that Ann, d/o John Angel * Mary Shanahan, married an Escott. I think that was mis-information given to the same person and the dates do not add up.

As for the sponsor for William Henry Williams, I mentioned before that the only Henry Angel I had was the son of Richard & Sarah Jane Phelan. If my theory about Richard holds up, and he was the brother of John Angel born 1769, that would make Henry born 1810 the first cousin of John (Mary Shanahan), thus establishing a relationship with the name "Henry". All it would take would be for any of Richard & Sarah Jane's children to have a child named "Henry" and viola, you have your sponsor and a close relative to boot.

We know there are 'missing' Angels out there and likely more than we know of.


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:03 pm 
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The court records do not provide the ages of the men who were arrested. However I think we can identify them through the process of elimination.

Most of the men who attacked Doyle's store house were related. Richard Osbourne (c1835-
1910) and John Osbourne were the sons of Mary Angel (c1798-1866) and Thomas Osbourne.
Richard Hiscott (Escott) was married to Anastasia Angel. Samuel Hannaford (1828-1890) and
John Hannaford were the sons of Mary Bidgood and thus a relative of the Angels. Moses
Donovan was married to Sarah Hannaford. George Pridham (c1821-1907) had brother Henry
who was married to Sarah Angel, daughter of John Angel and Mary Shanahan.

I suspect that the Angels who were arrested were John Angel (husband of Mary Shanahan), and his sons Richard and Joseph. The identity of Henry Angel is less clear. He could have been the man who in 1852 married Mary Williams (1826-1900) and perhaps a brother of John Angel Sr.

One can just imagine how tense it was during Sunday Mass at St. Joseph's Church when the
Doyles and the families of these men had to worship together. By the way, Edward Doyle and his family never went to Boston. He leased a house from Henry Edward Chafe next to the Anglican Church.


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:05 pm 
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Ed, I would love to see a copy of the court records, if you would be so kind. I seem to have a lot of relations in there!

If George Pridham was involved in the attack, he was closely associated with the Angel family. Not only through brother Henry Pridham & Sarah Angel, but also through sister Elizabeth Pridham & Joseph Angel.
George Pridham was married to Johanna Sullivan, who I believe was related to James Sullivan, husband of Mary Ellen Angel, d/o John Angel & Mary Shanahan.

I do not have Henry Angel or the Mary Williams mentioned. RC or Anglican? Likely RC.

I have not yet researched Mary bidgood & Stephen Hannaford so did not have any children listed for them. You have given me 3 to look for.

Likewise, I do not have Anatasia Angel or Richard Hiscott/Escott. Would Anatasia be the daughter of John Angel & Mary Shanahan?

Well, no wonder I couldn't find the right Neddy Doyle in Boston! Still won't find him now either. Darn those RC records!

Worship not only would have been tense, but imagine what it was like when the collection plate went around!


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:03 am 
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Hi Trishe, sorry for the delay but I'm going to send you a copy (via email) of the Samuel Angell will I was talking about. Let me know if you have any problems receive it - Sarah


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 10:55 am 
Good Morning to all Seekers of Angel(l)s - living or elsewhere! "Where there's a WILL - There's a RELATIVE WAITING - In the WINGS!" Anna here - Now that my DENTAL WOES have just about abated - I should be able to get back to taking a BITE out of some of the clouds that surround ANGEL(L)S from Maddox Cove/Petty Hr., NL. Hopefully, I can shed some light on ANGEL(L)S of ALL Religions as they relate to my line. Note: There were no Angels in the PAST who were both financially well-endowed and of R.C. lineage! Nada!

However, as more ANGEL(L)S, such as my Paternal GREAT GRANDFATHER, RICHARD & wife, MARY ANN ROGERS-ANGEL-(dropped the second "L" when they 'moved on up' to St. John's) -to afford the ONE CERTAINTY they could afford to give their children - AN EDUCATION - through the free R.C. attained @ St. Patrick's Hall School - when The Irish Christian Brothers arrived in 1855 - the real or imagained barriers previously constucted during long winter nights around an impoverished hearth in Maddox Cove/Petty Hr., were leveled. Fituratively and Literally.

RICHARD AND MARY ANN ROGERS-ANGEL - buried in Mount Carmel Cemetary overlooking Quidi Vidi, along with an as of yet-to-be-conclusively identified SCURRY - would be proud, in 2010, & humbled as well, to know just how successful their move from Maddox Cove/Petty Hr. to St. John's, NL., turned out to be for their grateful ancestors.

It was through Education and the refinements that came with it, that many an impoverished, financially, family, attained the acceptance and respect, and, yes! financial independance that The Merchants of Water St., and Absentee Landlords had no choice but to acquiese & finally acknowledge as equals.

I will only give information I know to be true - so many "pirates and privateer tales" doubtless born in truth but added to over the humble hearths from the mid sixteen hundreds - as an example, my Father, Gerald Patrick Angel, told us as our imaginations grabbed on and took wing to as children are wont to do and need to - "MY GRANDMOTHER, MARY ANN ANGEL, told us that JOHN ANGELL was a CATHOLIC Pirate, driven out of England because he was a CATHOLIC (Roman) Pirate and he landed in Maddox Cove/Petty Hr."

WE KNOW with CERTAINTY, today, that JOHN ANGELL, WAS a PRIVATEER - but definitely NOT ROMAN CATHOLIC.

We also know that the religious ties over the tracks of time, were crossed and re-crossed many, many times. And, now, thankfully, the religious rows of the passed, have gone the way of the "Newfie Bullet." No more RELIGIOUS tracks to cross - which leaves only the absolute truth to be found. I hope I can help with what I know to be true as far as ANGELS from Maddox Cove/Petty Hr., who must lay claim - or blame! to my being around.

The names I KNOW to be related to my line of ANGEL - are those of Callanan, Rogers, Scurry, Whitten - and quite a few more.

The name, RENNIE. Quite well-off. Think, Sir Charles Rennie, Rennies River, Rennies Mill Road, Rennies Flour Mill, Rennies River - just up above the bridge by Fieldiaazn Grounds. More than one Bakery ground its flour there - including my Mother's Family - The FULONGS of SMITHVILLE HOSTELRY and FURLONG BROTHERS BAKERY. (Where My Mother, Irene Furlong, met my Father, Gerald Angel. (At the Swimming Pool that was opened there, on the River, in 1926. (As a young girl, I often sat on the only remaining piece of RENNIES FLOUR MILL - a piece of concrete that jutted from the River Banks - trying to imagine all the "townies" swimming in the now-polluted River - in which I learned to swim.)

Now! I take off - my jaw is hurting from "chawing" on The Dentist's fingers on Friday - his finger may hurt - but, his wallet doesn't!. Advil time!

I'm back, Trishe, Ed., Sarah,. I'd love to hear from anyone - already have - since registering on this great site. Anything I have on Angels - real or IMAGINED - I'll be delighted to share. Hopefully, you will be able to help me...............Anna Angel-Woolgar.


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 2:05 pm 
HI! Trishe - Anna Angel-Woolgar here. I am referencing your Post of Monday, Jan. 18, 2010, 6:18 p.m. (I am taking my time and reading all posts re: Angel).

In this post to Ernie, you reference Ed Chafe "finding an 1843 record for 2 R.C. Petty Hr. Sealers, RICHARD ANGEL(L) & JOHN PRIDHAM................They did indeed exist.

In The Summer of 1970, Dad - Gerald P. Angel and I - "climbed" to the Old R.C. Graveyard in Maddox Cove/Petty Hr. Dad wanted to show me the MEMORIAL STONES of his "2 GREAT UNCLES - RICHARD ANGEL(L) and JOHN PRIDHAM - lost @ Sea while Seal Hunting in 1843.(HIS FATHER, JOHN ANGEL - remember, my Paternal Great Grandfather, RICHARD ANGEL & Wife, MARY ANN ROGERS-ANGEL dropped the Second "L" when they moved to St. John's as notice of a free Education would be afforded beginning in 1875 - At St. Patrick's Hall Boy's School. (The Irish Christian Brothers had arrived in 1855 and started a PRIVATE, Paid-for Education @ St. Bonaventure's College, which my GGParents could not afford.) So, they moved to The City later.) Their Son, my Grandfather, John Angel, was the Second Boy to enroll @ St. Pat's. Before the School was finished, they attended School @ THe B.I.S. Hall on Queen's Rd. and moved to St. Patrick's Hall when it was ready. John Angel was b. on Dec. 07, 1881 - so he would have been about 7 when he was enrolled.

Dad and I walked from Maddox Cove up to The Old Graveyard & went to where the Memorial Stones were when Dad saw them with HIS FATHER. Unfortunately, and much to the disappointment of my Father, they were overgrown and we could not find them.

RICHARD ANGELL and JOHN PRIDHAM, GREAT UNCLES of MY FATHER, as I said earlier. Dad was b. on July 19, 1912, at the corner of then Hamilton Ave. and Springdale St.

On a piece of paper, Dad had written the names & date 1843. He was quite sad we could not find the Memorials to his GGUncles. "They were only young men when they were lost."Dad showed me the paper. "Between the ages of 19 and 23 and were not married."
Subsequent trecks to the Old R.C. Graveyard by Dad and my Brothers, Bob and Pat Angel in the 1980's also proved unsuccessful in finding the Memorial Stones. (When the family moved to the City, I guess there was no one remaining to attend to the young, lost-at sea-Sealers.

The fact that they were NOT married puts and end to any line THEY may have created and accounts for the difficulty in following their names.

Dad was a sensitive man who only good of people. As a result, any relatives involved in rackets in Petty Hr., etc., were never passed on. Either he never knew about them or chose to focus on the fact that "The Evil that men do lives on after them - the good is oft interred with their bones." Julius Caesar-Shakespear - often quoted by my Father.

As an example, The DOYLE Affair - the Petty Hr. One! The first time I heard of that was when I read about it on this site. I do wish Dad had passed on more than the good - but, that was, as I keep saying, the way of my Father. Setting an example for us to follow, as he was taught.

I once mentioned to him who was his Mother's favorite Son - figuring that my Grandmother, Anastasia Flynn-Angel would have said Dad or our Uncle, Bro. Lawrence Angel, L.A. to us. Born in 1921 along with his fraternal twin, Aunt Mary Angel-Cormeau. "Uncle L.A." died of bone cancer in B.C. in March, 1980.

But, Dad told me that another brother, our Uncle JOHN "Jack" Angel, was his Mother's favorite. I was shocked. He had been an Engineer - married Loretta NUGENT. Knowing Dad's Philosphy about money and its use as a means of helping others along with the fact that Uncle L.A. - Rev. Bro. Lawrence Angel - who gave his money as a teacher - working on his Doctorate in French when he died - to the R.C. Church as a Christian Brother - once came "home" -OUR home on 3 First Ave., where he always stayed - on $10.00 - from B.C. Thought ten bucks had the same value in 1975 as when he entered the Brotherhood in the forties!

Apparently, Anastasia Flynn-Angel "favored" our Uncle Jack Angel because he lived a life where more people knew what he did - rather than who he was. NOt that he wasn't a good person - he was. It's just that I was shocked - considering the "behind-the-scenes" way of life Dad lived.(At his wake in May, 2003, countless people came and told us stories of how "Gerry" had put his hand into his pocket & helped at a time that was desperate for the "teller." And, let me tell you, Dad could not afford that - yet, he relied upon himself and his Faith & told no one - especially Mom - the Accountant of the Family.)

To this day, I don't know how Mom and Dad did what they did for us - as Dad kept singing his "Ditties", walking to work, and sharing his worries with none of his children.

So, thanks for the story of the fight of the Doyles, etc. (Guess the dominant gene of the profession of "pirate or privateer" showed up in the ancestors of John Angell - from the mid- sixteen-hundreds on. Given the antics of his oldest, ME, and some of my siblings, no wonder Dad thought it best not to encourage any "dominant genes in his children. And, I married an Anglican! Anna.


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 4:28 am 
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Hi Anna - You mentioned your great granddather and grandmother Richard Angel and Mary Ann Rogers. Just so I'm starting from the "right" Richard Angel, can you clarify who you believe Richard's father was, or his approximate birth date (if you happen to know, as I know from my discussions with Trishe and Ed that there a few stray Angel/l's flapping around). My apologies as you might have already passed this info on to others before, but I hadn't come across your line before and would love to know more about them and how they connect to the rest of the family. Regards - Sarah Angell


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 1:06 pm 
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Thanks Anna for all the wonderful memories. Your Dad was very special obviously.

I don't doubt at any time the existance of the Memorial to the Sealers. There were a number of headstones in the Old RC Cemtery that were there in 2008 and gone in 2009, sunk beneath the berry bushes.

However, one minor point. Richard Angel, the young sealer, could not have strictly been your father's "Great-uncle", as your father's grandfather was Richard - obviously not the same person. But, knowing how relationships go, it is concievable that the Richard Angel & John Pridham who were sealers in 1843 were definitely related a generation back from your great-grandfather.

If the Sealers were between the ages of 19 & 23 in 1843, then they were born between 1820 - 1824.
John Angel & Mary Shanahan's earliest children was born in 1832.
So, Richard Angel the Sealer would likely have been a brother to John Angel (Mary Shanahan).
John Pridham poses more of a problem. Given his birth between 1820 - 1824, he would have to be the son of James Pridham & Jane Field. And I have no "John" Pridham in that family. Since he was unmarried, he could fit, but nothing has been found on his birth or baptism. Not surprising! I do have room for him though, within those birth parameters. And since his brother Henry, born 1822-24, married Sarah Angel, John would have been very familiar with John Angel born 1769's crowd.


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 8:01 am 
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Anna, I grew up with family folklore that my Angel ancestors were pirates. In 1991, I headed to England to see if I could prove it.

My only solid clue was an intriguing newspaper wedding notice from 26 August 1835, which went as follows:

Thomas GILL of the French Horn Inn, Sarum, to Miss ANGELL, late of Newfoundland. At St. Edmunds Church, Salisbury, by Rev. Hawes, June 28. By this marriage he will come into possession of a number of estates and money amounting in value to a million stirling, left by Mr. Angell having died some sixty years ago. The Chrols estate near Lamberth, formerly part of the landed property and to possess which he must bear the name ans arms of the Angell family.

I located the original marriage entry which stated that Thomas Gill wed Elizabeth Mary Angell on 5 July 1835, by Rev. Herbert Hawes. Both the bride and groom were literate.

I also collected a number of Angell wills but I was unable to connect Elizabeth Mary Angell with her English relatives. The trail went cold. I do not know if Thomas Gill changed his name to Angell. There is a legend that the Angell family owned Salisbury Plain.


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 10:40 am 
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Edward - Interesting to hear all these stories. For the most part my line of the Angell family weren't aware of the pirate stories until my father and I were able to directly link my ancestor, Edward James Angell to his Newfoundlander family. Once we were able to establish the connection we were in email contact with a Bob Angel/l who relayed to story that the first Newfoundland Angel/l's were pirates and/or privateers for the British Crown.

However, before this the family was well aware of the alleged connection to "the lost Angel/l fortune" for a number of reasons. During my father's life time (which would have been after 1941 but before 1953), my great grandfather living in New Zealand, Albert Angell received a letter asking him to join a class action to recover the lost Angell millions. Albert Angell, a very private man regarded the letter as an unwarranted interference in his personal life and with that he threw the letter in the fire saying "the only only way to get money was through hard wok!".

Later, my father (who was associated with various legal areas in New Zealand as a Collector of Customs) later dug further into the various legal actions that had been taken into various people trying to lay claim to the fortune, alleged to have been worth 64 million pounds, including estates in London, Crowhurst and Salisbury Plain (of particular note is Angell v. Angell where one Benedict Brown laid claim to the Angell Estates, and was in fact successful). I believe Benedict Brown later changed his name to Angell to cement in connection to the Angell Estates. My father's interest (and mine) was, and still is purely as a possible interesting story in our family line. Which isn't to say we always make offhand jokes along the lines of "that's ours" whenever we see of hear stories about Salisbury Plain and Angel Town in London.

I had also come across some reference to a possible individual in NZ being entitled to the Estate of John Angell of England, and likely to receive "millions of pounds" (per NZ Truth, 12 July 1924). The story was later found to be without basis, but I have a copy of an article which discusses the alleged connections with some named relatives. If you would like I could email you a copy.

My Dad has been looking into the possible origins of the Angell family in England and has an interesting theory on how we might be connected with the original John Angell of Crowhurst who wrote his will all those years ago bequeathing his Estate to his "heirs male". If only he'd been a bit more forward thinking about women we might all be wandering around with a little extra cash! Anyway, I'll do another post on my Dad's theory of the Angell connection.

- Sarah


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 11:14 am 
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Here's the info my Dad (Graeme Angell) has been looking into regarding the possible connection of Samuel Angell of Newfoundland to the Angell's in England and by extension, "The lost Angell Millions":

"Arminelle Angell of Hatherleigh, Devon was the granddaughter of one James Angell b. 1630 in Crowhurst, and the son of John Angell and Elizabeth Edolfe of Crowhurst. This John Angell was the son of William Angell who was granted extensive interests in fisheries and lighthouses by the British Crown. John Angell was also the infamous man who wrote his will leaving the extensive English Estates to his "heirs male", but because none of his distant relatives that could claim to be his heirs male were able to prove their lineage the estate was eventually claimed by a Mr Benedict Brown.

Anyway, James Angell left Crowhurst "forever" after a dispute with his father John Angell (I understand Vanessa Trampleasure found the written account of this dispute and excerpts of James Angell's bitter letter to his relative promising never to return or have anything to do with his father).

James Angell married a Mary Lange of Hatherleigh (which might have been the original cause of the dispute with his father?) and settled there where he became the Parish Clerk together with "tradesman" type employment e.g. Serge Maker or Tinker (making pots and pans). Essentially, when he was cut off (or cut himself off) from the Crowhurst Angell's he fell on hard times. While this James Angell was not considered "gentry", he was entitled to the use of the Angell Arms.

His granddaughter, Arminelle Angell married a Joseph Bounsall and the family moved to Maker, Cornwall. In her research, Vanessa Trampleasure had indicated that this family had come to Maker via Portsea (Plymouth). Unfortunately we were unable to obtain a source for this information from Vanessa prior to her sad passing.

Our interest in Maker, Cornwall lies in the fact that the daughter of the "first" Samuel Angell of Petty Harbor had a daughter Susannah Angell (by his second wife Sarah), who was the sister of John Angel b. abt. 1725. Susannah Angell was supposedly born in Maker, Cornwall, married a William Trounce and died in Dittisham, Devon in 1748. Susannah and John's half sister, Lucy Angell (by Samuel Angell's first wife, Lucy) also ended up in Dittisham, Devon. Given that Samuel Angell may not have been a permanent resident of Newfoundland ie. he probably returned to England frequently, there seems to be a not untenuous connection between the Newfoundland Angell family and the Angell's associated with the John Angell with Crowhurst.

So, the hypothesis is that Samuel Angell of Petty Harbor may have been the son on James Angell b. 1630. However, we have been unable to locate a record of James Angell having a son called "Samuel", although we did find a record that he had a son "John Angell". To that end we also don't know who Arminelle Angell's father was, only that she was the granddaughter of James Angell, which was apparently the line Vanessa was descended from. Given Samuel Angell's extensive interests in the Newfoundland fisheries there is also a theory that despite the falling out of James Angell and his father John Angell of Crowhurst, John Angell may have assisted his grandson, Samuel Angell in the fishing trade through his extensive influence in the same in England.

Again, this is all a theory, but I think an interesting one nonetheless". - Sarah


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 3:13 pm 
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Sarah, you have inspired me to re-examine the Angell wills I collected in 1991. I am not sure where they are after nineteen years, but I never throw anything away (a good and bad thing). Ed


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Sat May 08, 2010 11:42 pm 
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Sarah, Ed, Anna:

This is all very intriquing! Keep the stories coming please. While we may never be ble to prove anything, putting them all together makes more sense.

I wonder who the Elizabeth Mary Angel was who married Thomas Gill in 1835? The "Mr. Angell" who died some 60 years ago - putting the death around 1775 - woud have been who? Certainly not the John Angell who wrote the infamous will.

Very interesting!

Trishe


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Sun May 09, 2010 11:03 am 
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Hi Ed - Just thought I'd summarize some of the key details of that article I mentioned from the "New Zealand Truth", dated 12 July 1924. The article basically quashes the alleged connection with certain people living in NZ to an earlier report that they were possible heirs to the Angell fortune. The article deals with people supposedly connected to the fortune of John Angell of Crowhurst, who arrived in New Zealand prior to my Angell relatives, and therefore unconnected to the Petty Harbour Angel/l's.

It refers to the a William Adrian Allery, who had been an aged Londoner living in poverty and the "alleged" discovery of his marriage certificate. It was supposedly reported in London as one of the many "lost lost relatives" who were entitled to the vast Angell fortune. The article then refers to a "Miss Garvey" and her father Mr Garvey, as well as "numerous other relatives" being possible claimants, some of which were living in New Zealand.

The elder Mr Garvey was John Francis Garvey (and noted in the article as having at least 1 living son). On being approached by the paper he informed them the Estate referred to was not the entire vast Angell Estate relating to London, but only a portion of it, being 60 acres near Brixton. Mr Garvey alleged he was entitled to the property on the basis of his connection through his grandmother, a Miss Hatfield, supposedly a niece of the the John Angell who wrote the notorious will and unwittingly left his Estate (which supposedly included London Estates, Crowhurst and Salisbury Plain) to the Crown. In the article Miss Hatfield was b. 1783, a year before John Angell died, and her family lived in Sawtry. She is referred to as marrying a George Waddington of Kettlethorpe Hall, Lincolnshire in 1815. John Garvey's mother (Martha Waddington m. Mr John Garvey M.A of Fullbech, Lincolnshire) was a child of the Hatfield-Waddington union. John Garvey's mother also had several siblings, "the late Edward Waddington and the late Richard Waddington" (who both married and had children), "the late George Waggington" who had no children, and Julia and Harriet Waddington who also both married and had children. John and Martha Garvey (nee Waddington) had six children, Cecily Garvey of Hastings, England who married twice, Edith Garvey (later Mrs Fabre) of Cricklewood near London who married and had 3 sons, Hamilton Garvey who had no family, John F. Garvey (who had eight children), George Garvey of Wandsworth, London (who had no family), and Charles Garvey (who married and had family) and lived at Sunderland. It was also stated that Miss Hatfield had brothers and sisters, so there would be further claimants there.

The article points out therefore that all of these people and their descendants would be potential claimants, so any vast inheritance would be rather watered down by the time it reached the people in NZ. Also, the whole alleged claim of this family was based on a story that the family couldn't establish their claim because - John Angell's death certificate was missing (alledgely because he died overseas or traveling between India and England) and in fact Mr John F Garvey and his late wife had tried to claim the fortune in person, but despite interviews by the Courts were found not to have a claim.

I suppose I don't have to point out that the fact of a missing death certificate would never had prevented a legitimate claimant from obtaining any benefit of the Angell Estate. The ACTUAL reason for the difficulties in laying claim to the Angell Estate was because of the drafting of John Angell's will, which provided for its disposition of his "heirs male", which, at the time, none could be found. So regardless of Miss Hatfield's claim, and even if she was a legitimate relative, she would not have fulfilled the provisions of the will.

Given the convoluted nature of this story, and the false reference to the missing death certificate of John Angell as the reasons for the Hatfield/Waddington/Garvey line being unable (and then surprisingly when is was supposedly located, then lost again) to claim the Angell fortune, I'm rather suspect it's one of the many mistaken (and sometimes plain fraudulent) claims that have been submitted and refuted since the fortune first came up for grabs in 1784.

Which just goes to show you: where there's a will, there's a way!


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 4:37 am 
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Hi Everyone - Just wondering if anyone had been previously been in touch with Patricia (Trishe - another Tishe!) from the line of Rosanna (Rose) Angel m. James Rogers (another from the John Angel & Mary Shanahan line). I made contact with her with Family Tree Maker (she had a private family tree) and suggested she visit here for more info and to make contact with a few people, especially since she comes from the same line as a couple of people here. I've just emailed her to share my info on the earlier Angel(l) lines and what I understand to be Rosanna's siblings. Interestingly instead if Theresa Angel bap. 05 Oct 1850 she has an Elizabeth Angel. I'm waiting for more info to see if this is perhaps of interhcangable middle names ie. Elizabeth Theresa Angel or Theresa Elizabeth Angel, or another sibling entirley - Sarah Angell


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 7:46 pm 
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Sarah, this past weekend I searched my house for the probate records I collected in London in 1991. I still have not located them. Frustrated, I googled "Angell wills" and came across the "Angells in Australia" website. It has an interesting and comprehensive history of the Angell millions. However there is no mention of the Newfoundland. The oral tradition in Petty Harbour is that John Parnell brought from a will from England hidden in a clock. After his death it was discovered and given to John Angel. Financed by a St. John's merchant, John went to England to claim the estate. However, he ran out of funding and had to return to Petty Harbour.


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 9:26 pm 
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Sarah:

No, I have had no contact with the other "Patricia". Hope she decides to pay us a visit here. It would be nice to see what she has on her ancestry and to be able to share more with her.

Ed:

There has been some discussion on exactly which John Angel went to England to claim the estate. Another story was that Mary (Angel) Osbourne, wife of Thomas, also went to England to claim the estate.

Sarah, you had mentioned the Class Action Suit. Others received the same information on such a suit from a Law Firm in Boston but chose not to participate in it.


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 9:28 am 
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Trishe - Gosh yes! The Class Action Suit! People are still after it today - and there's even a Facebook page set up by a guy who claims he is a legitimate claimant (he recently changed his name to Angell by deed poll in the UK). I keep an eye on it in case anything interesting family history wise comes up, but other than that I'm not holding out for any large novelty cheques from the British Crown! Truth be told, and taking into account the current British inheritance laws (which are quite board), the HUGE number of probable descendants, and the fact that this all happen in the 1700's, I think we'd all probably be very lucky to see half a pound (dollar) each out of the whole lot...if we were lucky.

Also, re Mary Angel and Thomas Osbourne I had come across a few census records that may have been this couple showing they may have gone to Lincolnshire in England, however I'm not sure it was the right couple, so perhaps they did go to England chasing the cash.

Ed - Yes. The Angell's in Australia is rather interesting and the author seems to have done quite a lot of research. That line is from the Angell's of Calne, Wiltshire in England who emigrated from there to Australia in 1849, and unconnected (although maybe 500 years ago they were connected to our line). Google Angells + Calne + Wiltshire and you'll be overwhelmed, but I have haven't been able to nail down our connection to this line as it was probably occurred prior to the time of Samuel Angell of Petty Harbour. If we knew that we'd probably knew how where Samuel Angell came from.

And I've certainly head the John Parnell story, the clock, various variations on the muder of several involved parties and the usual presentation of an underhanded/imcompetant lawyer (I'm a lawyer/attorney, so I can say that!). There is usually always a mention of a missing, lost or destroyed will and I wonder if it's a variation on the original theme of the Angell kin missing out on John Angell's Estate in the 1720's. Funneled through the distance of England to Newfoundland at the time I'm sure the story became all the more compelling and the sense of injustice extreme (although the real anger should probably be directed at the lawyer who let John Angell write his will the way he did). And here we are three centuries later still fascinated by the stories.

My father and I are still convinced that there must be a connection with the earlier London Angell's and Samuel Angell based on the strong presence of these lines in the merchant/fisheries at the time. Given the monopoly over the industry (fostered by the Crown) I would imagine it became quite a family business, which I believe would explain Samuel Angell's interests in Newfoundland in the early 1700's. And Samuel Angell seemed to be a man of some means and prominence in fisheries at the time. Somewhere buried in a pile of old documents somewhere in England is probably SOMETHING that would shed light on his connection to the rest of the Angell family in England and how (and specifically when he first arrived in Newfoundland). So more money to the British historians I say!


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:58 pm 
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Just found this forum yesterday. My great grandmother was Mary J Escott from Petty Harbor. Mary's parents were Richard Escott and Ann Angel of Petty Harbor. Mary had two sisters, Julia and Jennie. The oldest, Julia, was born in 1861, the youngest around 1867. They had brothers. Their brothers and parents died early of TB and pneumonia. Julia was married to William Fitzpatrick of Petty Harbor, with son and daughter. Husband and daughter died; Julia removed to Amherst, Nova Scotia, with her son and her settlement, and learned tailoring. She brought her two unmarried sisters to Amherst, once established, ending that Angel line in Petty Harbor. The three girls are all present on the 1891 Nova Scotia census in Amherst. Julia remained in Nova Scotia; her sisters removed to Connecticut.

This may serve as confirmation that an Ann Angel of Petty Harbor did marry an Escott. One other thing. This Angel family was RC, but the three sisters became Baptists in Amherst.

Tom Wetmore


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 2:07 am 
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My father and I were looking into something already raised by Edward on this site regarding the Angel/Angell families and I was wondering if anyone might have any further information on the find. We are particularly again looking into the possible connection to a Miss Elizabeth Mary Angell (supposedly of Newfoundland) m. 5 July 1835 to a Thomas Gill in Salisbury St Edmund, England.
As Edward pointed out, the information is from a rather sensational News item from the American Railroad Journal, Vol. 4, pg. 573, 1835, attributed to the “Devizes Gazette”: “Mr. Thomas Gill son Mr. Gill of The French Horn Inn Sarum was married on 28th June at Salisbury by the Rev. Dr Hawes to a Miss Angell of Newfoundland by which marriage he will shortly came into possession of a number of estates and money amounting to 1,000,000 left by Mr Angell who died some sixty years since. The Chrois estate near Lambeth forms part of the landed property and to possess which he must bear the name and arms of the Angell family. He is at present the mail cart man On the line of road from Wurminster to Sarum”

Now apart from the sensational claims re: The Lost Angell Fortune, my area of interest is –
[*]The “Miss Angell is referred to as being from Newfoundland – and based on the age of marriage she would have been born about 1810 (approx. only)
[*]The reference to the “Chrois estate near Lambeth” is a phonetic spelling of the Crowhurst estate near Lambeth – the well known location of one of the main Angell families in England.
[*]This is one of the few connections that appear show a link between the Angel/Angell families in Newfoundland to an identifiable Angell family in England.

On researching further we found also found the article is supported by several more articles referring to the marriage of Thomas Gill and Miss Angell. One is from the Niles Weekly Register, Sept 19 1835 and Rural Register, Vol 12, 1835. There is also the reference Edward mentions to the actual marriage, our info coming from Pallot’s Marriage Index for England: 1780 – 1837 showing Thomas Gill (bachelor) married Elizabeth Mary Angell (spinster) on 5 July 1835 in the Parish of Salisbury St Edmund, England, by licence.

On that basis, we are obtaining a copy of the Wiltshire Phillimore's Parish Registers (Marriages) and the Wiltshire FHS’s transcription of Sarum Diocese Marriage Licence Bonds in the hope that these resources may have some more info on the marriage of Elizabeth Mary Angell and Thomas Gill, particularly showing whether or not she was from Newfoundland, or her parents. Of course, they both may show nothing at all but it’s worth a try. Ed – are these some of the resources that you might have looked at before?

Based on this info I was wondering whether it was worth re-posting to if anyone has any likely possibilities for who the Miss Elizabeth Mary Angell from Newfoundland could be – bearing in mind the marriage date of 1835. Our concern of course is the newspaper articles may be sensational in nature and the information about the Angell Estate inheritance one of the many mistaken (or fraudulent) claims. Regardless, there is written evidence of the marriage between Miss Angell and Thomas Gill occurring (as Edward points out), and my interest is in finding out is she really was from Newfoundland and following another Angell/Angel line. Hopefully some new (or old) members using the site might have some further info.


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:02 pm 
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Trish, are you still there and pursuing the RC Angel's from Petty Harbour; 5 years after your initial post?
I am a descendant of this family and have spent the last few months researching. Willing to share and also looking for validation and possibly complete a few loose connections.
This is my first post, so will keep it short for now!


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:08 am 
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I am a descendent of the Petty Harbor Angel family. Trish has been extremely helpful in providing information. If I can provide anything of interest to you I would be happy to do so.

Tom Wetmore


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:51 pm 
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ttwetmore wrote:
I am a descendent of the Petty Harbor Angel family. Trish has been extremely helpful in providing information. If I can provide anything of interest to you I would be happy to do so.

Tom Wetmore


Thanks for the quick reply Tom.
Posting is new to me, as I wanted to do my own research before looking at information that I knew was available on line. I was aware that this posting thread existed but did not see your earlier post about Mary J Escott until you replied. So again, not sure if the entire thread was always there or I just missed some of the postings. It also seems as if this thread has been inactive for a few years?

I've spent the winter months gathering baptism and marriage records from the provincial archives at the Rooms in St. John's.

Anyway, it seems as if we could be related through John Angel and Mary Shannahan. They are my g-g-grandparents and they had 7 or 8 daughters and 2 sons. I am descended from them, though Richard Angel baptized 1838/06/02. Richard's sister Ann (baptized 1836/05/13) married Richard Escott on August 8, 1860. Richard (1838) was a witness (best man) at their wedding.

Maybe you know all of this already? And I hope I captured all the info correctly.

I had not found baptisms records for Julia and Jennie but I had found baptism records for 6 other children, which were all recorded as HISCOTT, not ESCOTT. This is not unusual, given that all records were handwritten and some not very well. Your great grandmother Mary Joseph (recorded as Hiscott) born 1862/08/10 was the sponsor at my grandfather's baptism (John Joseph Angel) in 1881/12/09. Ann Angel (1836) was my grandfather's aunt. The other Escott/Hiscott baptisms were for males;

1868/09/22 John Joseph
1872/08/15 John Joseph (implies the first John died young)
1874/06/23 William Jos.
1875/12/30 Richard Jos.
1880/03/23 Richard Jos. ( implies the first Richard died young)

I would never have known what had become of this family, unless you had replied .. thanks for that.

I have a lot of info which has only created a few missing links. Maybe I'll find some of those links in the above thread.


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:30 pm 
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Hi There!
Nice to see there is still some interest in the Angel Family, originally from Petty Harbour. I am still looking for answers and people so let's have a conversation, either here or directly through email. You mentioned that you were related through Richard Angel & Mary Ann Rogers. Perhaps we could start there and work in one direction or the other.
Tom, how nice to hear from you again! Good to know you are still researching. I haven't worked on the family for a while but have likely added bit and pieces since we last corresponded.
I'm heading for Petty Harbour in early July for a week so maybe we could get started soon in case I can look something up while there.
Trishe


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:08 pm 
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Trishe wrote:
Hi Sarah & Ed:

Puzzle...mystery...clues. And here I thought the Chafe family was hard!

First, Samuel Angel baptized 29 Nov 1797 Anglican was the son of Samuel Angel & Jane Gerrard. He died before 1801.

Our problem with the multiple Richards comes with only two main clues - religion and birth location.

We know that John Angel born 1769 was the last line of Angel's to remain in Petty Harbour and his line were RC.

BUT, John Angel born 1769 was not the ONLY RC Angel. Samuel Angel & Mary Power baptized their children RC. We know that Samuel Angel was born in St. John's, as his father, Samuel Angel (Jane Gerrard) was living on Water St. West by 1794. So Richard Angel, bap. 1 Dec 1834 RC, s/o Samuel Angel & Mary Power, likely married RC in St. John's, if he did indeed marry. He is not mentioned in Samuel's (1802) will.

John Angel & Mary Shanahan were RC and remained in Petty Harbour, making John the son of John born 1769. John & Mary (Shanahan)'s son Richard, born about 1838, married Mary Anne Rogers or Scurry, depending on who you listen to. One of the family says "Rogers" while the gravestone says "Scurry". I only have two children for this couple now, but there had to be more. Richard stayed in Petty Harbour until at least 1881; he moved to St. John's so his children could attend the Christian Brothers School.

John Angel born 1769 Petty Harbour had other sons who likely had children: Samuel, 1793-1879; Joseph Angel, abt 1815 - 1836, married Elizabeth Pridham; he also could have had more children besides the girls. I am thinking of the Richard Angel the sealer in 1843, who was found on the same vessel as John Pridham - both RC. That Richard would have been a Petty Harbour man.


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 Post subject: Re: Angel Family of Petty Harbour & St. John's
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:11 am 
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Sorry, I'm wondering if there was a point in copying my earlier note?


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