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 Post subject: Romanichal British Gypsys in Newfoundland (ca. 1603-)
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:32 pm 
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The folowing quotation entertains the possibility that some Romanichal (a Romani subgroup in the British Isles, aka Gyspsy or sometimes Pikey) emigres were deported from the United Kingdom or British Isles to Newfoundland after 1603:

“In 1603 an Order in Council was made for the transportation of Romanichal to Newfoundland, the West Indies, France, Germany, Spain and the Low Countries. Other European countries forced the further transport of the Romani of Britain to the Americas. Many times those deported in this manner did not survive as an ethnic group, because of the separations after the round up, the sea passage and the subsequent settlement as slaves, all destroying their social fabric. At the same time, voluntary emigration began to the English overseas possessions. Romani groups which survived continued the expression of the Romani culture there.” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanichal)

Dr. Spencer Wells of National Genographic Project gives the following brief overview of UK Romanichal YDNA SNP (haplogroup) test result frequency distributions with corresponding family name correlates:

“Further Y DNA testing has been done on Romanichal's whom still live in England representing some of the larger and older Romanichal family surnames such as Boswell, Smith, Stanley, Lee, Cooper, the majority of the Romanichal male lineages regardless our surnames today are in H1a - M82. Easily 50% to maybe as high as 75% of the Romanichal male lineages are found carrying H1a - M82.” (https://en-gb.facebook.com/DrSpencerWel ... 2130632890)

Note that the Leicester University Romani DNA study gives the following YDNA-SNP test results for the UK Romanichal test group studied:

46% in R1b*
22% in H1a - M82
8% in J2*
6% in I1*
3% in I
3% in R1a1

(http://forums.familytreedna.com/archive ... 36143.html)

Note the high frequency of haplogroup clade R1b* (with no downstream nodes or branches tested), suggesting Brythonic Celtic male YDNA (perhpas R-L21 subclades) introgression into the implying unidirectional male-biased or asymmetric gene flow into the Romanichal genome through intermarriage upon contact with local Engloish, Cymbric and Cornish Celtic patrilines.

For further details the reader is directed to the FTDNA YDNA H Haplo Group Test Results outlining YSNP & YSTR test results for project participants of attested or proven Rom (East Indian) and Roma(ni) descent, extending from the Middle East, Balkans, Central-Western Europe and British Isles-United Kingdom (Romanichal)/ (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/YH ... e=yresults). The reader is also referred to the FTDNA Celtic Traveler YDNA Group Project, where members of some British Celtic Traveler groups trace ancestry to intermarriage with local Romanichal groups and viceversa-the latter primarlily through banishment or exile being labeled Pikeys: (https://www.familytreedna.com groups/celtic-traveller/dna-results). For an etymology and philological debate on the ethnonym Pikey (sic.) and its many attested orthographic variants the reader is directed to the following Wikipedia site:
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pikey).

Given the English or British parliamentary decree outlined above it is indeed quite possible that some Newfoundland English patrilines may in fact descend from deported Romanichal emigres exiled to NL ca. 1603-1800, although finding such an immigrant in the preserved archival records would be next to impossible given the secrecy surrounding the identity of these displaced immigrants. Future YDNA SNP-STR testing among NL male test participant might help in reconstrucitng the enigmatic origins and historical migration routes of these early Romanichal settlers. One would expect these early migrants to blend into the local Anglo-Irish coastal planters-setller-livyers as helpers, labourers or servants, with some perhaps being labeled as hawkers, tinkers and peddlars. The prevalence of family names in Newfoundland such as Bailey, Cooper, Lee, Smith, and many others....with proven Romanichal heritage (YDNA H-M-82) in both UK and USA suggest that members representing these NL Anglo-Irish patrilines may trace distant ancestry going back to the UK Romanichal communities therein. A future study of ship passenger and/or court records in maritime history archives from the UK might shed some light on the names and identities of some of these deported Roma emigres, ship names(s), port of call and destination, the timing of deportation and the numbers of deportees,....


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 Post subject: Re: Romanichal British Gypsys in Newfoundland (ca. 1603-)
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:22 pm 
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Are any researchers out there aware of any ongoing at(autosomal) or n(nuclear) DNA test results or databases for British Romanichal and Welsh Kale test subjects or participants? For example, would these autosomal markers show up under South Asian, Central Asian or Eastern European biogeographic ethnic origin reference populations such as FTDNA Family Finder, or would they be merely submerged as undetectable substrates lumped under West-Central European. My preliminary research suggests that there may in fact be some Newfoundland families of Anglo-Irish ancestry who may have unrecorded, forgotten or lost British Romanichal and/or Welsh Kale ancestry-but detailed calculations suggest that this so called Romani or gypsy substrate, resulting from outmigrations from SW England to NL dating to ca. 1780-1820, with concomitant intergenerational inbreeding, may not exceed 1-3% of targeted biogeographic ethnic origin or ancestry informative SNPs in whole genome sequencing. I am confident that with future refinements in whole genome sequencing with the expansion of targeted SNPs from current 700,000-750,000 to app. 3-4 million in the coming 3-5 years, along with more testing of Br Romanichal-Welsh Kale ethnic minorities throughout the UK, and expansion of genetic genealogy testing company databases with more participant or testee covergae, will detect a small Romani substrate in some NL Anglo-Irish with a suspected or even genealogically attested Br Rom-W Kale ancestry.


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 Post subject: Re: Romanichal British Gypsys in Newfoundland (ca. 1603-)
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:05 am 
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Regarding the question of alleged, distant British Gypsy (or Romanichal) ancestry in some NL Anglo-Irish families, my worldwide, bio-geographic, ethnic-origin percentages according to a DNA Tribes SNP conversion or raw data file analysis from AncestryDNA TM, show app. 0.3% (2,100 SNPs) of my tested genome (700,000 SNPs) (note this is a not a whole genome sequencing of app. 3.0 billion bps-base pairs or app. 30-40 million SNPs) as being South Asian. Whether this SA (South Asian) component (e.g., Kalash, and other SA or Indian tribal groups) is NA (Native American) (NL Mc or Lab Innuat/Montagnais) as observed in DNA Land sequenced genomes of aDNA samples, such as pre-contact Amerindians (or Paleoindians) (which seems to be a residual trace or echo af ancient Onge or Andaman Islander ancestry), or whether it reflects nearer British Gypsy (Romanichal) ancestry, cannot be determined at present, given the inherent limitations in current, comparative, crowd-sourced, direct-to-consumer, commercial genetic genealogy testing. As an interesting side note however, my worldwide or global matches for Diaspora Groups, in addition to Ashkenazic, does show a relatively high (rank 15) for European Roma (Gypsy) groups, which seems to point in the direction of having a possible Roma(nichal) ancestor somewhere in the family tree going back app. 8-9 Gens (225-250 years ago)-given a range of app. 0.421875%-0.2109375% SA atDNA. One never knows though, its possible I guess!


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